AU 100-A DAR 1: 4000 BC - 1520 BC

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Dubhghlas
, and they are easily defended with the installation of a strong point right next to them. If you don't go grab them, I am certain that Genghis will.

Euh, Dubhglas, what difficulty level? Aeson is talking about deity, where things aren't exactly the same. You can't have a strong point... even barbs can ruin your empire and kick you out of the game.

That's why it's so interesting to hear about this from another perspective: Genghis will want those wines in any game, on any level. In the noble games, he might not be able to be able to get it, and there is no risk whatsoever. You can even try to get more territory between the wines and his core, by e.g. trying for the bronze site. At Monarch, the bronze site is no option anymore: I can't see anyone settling, and holding it. On deity, it seems that the wines is even too near to him: if you settle it, you will lose it later (Genghis has the power to do so). So your tactic revolves around settling away from him.

Interesting... not all noble games are going to have that nice easy patch of land to settle before war erupts. In those situations, the 'deity settling strat' might be the way to go.

DeepO

[Aeson]

Well, you can have a very strong early military even on Deity, but you can't have it and go for an Oracle->Civil Service beeline. I think even on Deity you could get the Bronze site. And if not going for IW right after BW, it probably is the right move for someone with early military ambitions. If you go with Archery right off, then to Bronze Working, then send the Settler with a couple Archers and a Worker, you should be able to start pumping out Axes and Spears, and can definitely take out Genghis if you go quickly. With the AI starting without it's bonus units, this really isn't Deity early on.

It probably wouldn't be worth it knowing that Iron is right there in the capitol, but if you didn't know that, or if the Iron wasn't there...

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Well, you can have a very strong early military even on Deity, but you can't have it and go for an Oracle->Civil Service beeline. I think even on Deity you could get the Bronze site. And if not going for IW right after BW, it probably is the right move for someone with early military ambitions. If you go with Archery right off, then to Bronze Working, then send the Settler with a couple Archers and a Worker, you should be able to start pumping out Axes and Spears, and can definitely take out Genghis if you go quickly. With the AI starting without it's bonus units, this really isn't Deity early on.

It probably wouldn't be worth it knowing that Iron is right there in the capitol, but if you didn't know that, or if the Iron wasn't there...

That's something I'm missing in the DARs so far: war! The game gives so much options to build up at first, that a CS beeline becomes a much more viable option.

I was hoping someone would have gone the other way, and done the 'conquer first, research later' strat...

DeepO

[DeepO]

BTW, the AI not getting their bonus starting units? :mhhh: That hasn't changed this patch, has it? I've seen emperor starts near me with plenty of units (no extra settler though, deity would get a srious advantage there)

DeepO

[Dubhghlas]

Originally posted by DeepO

Euh, Dubhglas, what difficulty level? Aeson is talking about deity, where things aren't exactly the same. You can't have a strong point... even barbs can ruin your empire and kick you out of the game.

::Blinks dazedly and confusedly::

Um, I wasn't addressing Aeson. I was addressing Thrar, who isn't on Deity to my knowledge...

Originally posted by DeepO That's why it's so interesting to hear about this from another perspective: Genghis will want those wines in any game, on any level. In the noble games, he might not be able to be able to get it, and there is no risk whatsoever. You can even try to get more territory between the wines and his core, by e.g. trying for the bronze site. At Monarch, the bronze site is no option anymore: I can't see anyone settling, and holding it. On deity, it seems that the wines is even too near to him: if you settle it, you will lose it later (Genghis has the power to do so). So your tactic revolves around settling away from him.

Interesting... not all noble games are going to have that nice easy patch of land to settle before war erupts. In those situations, the 'deity settling strat' might be the way to go.

DeepO

Yes, obviously you have to take into account that sort of thing in your settling strategy, but if you are scared of Genghis at Deity, you shouldn't be playing at Deity.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by DeepO
BTW, the AI not getting their bonus starting units? :mhhh: That hasn't changed this patch, has it? I've seen emperor starts near me with plenty of units (no extra settler though, deity would get a srious advantage there)

I'm pretty sure it's because it's a scenario.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Dubhghlas
::Blinks dazedly and confusedly::

Um, I wasn't addressing Aeson. I was addressing Thrar, who isn't on Deity to my knowledge...

Oops... it handles the same topic, though

Yes, obviously you have to take into account that sort of thing in your settling strategy, but if you are scared of Genghis at Deity, you shouldn't be playing at Deity.

I'm scared of Genghis, and I'm nowhere near Deity

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson


I'm pretty sure it's because it's a scenario.

Should that get reported?

DeepO

[Dubhghlas]

Bah, as you will see tomorrow when I crank out and post the DAR on today's play, Genghis was a pussycat, though Boston did take some hits to its surrounding infrastructure.

Early war was missing, I think, because it turned out that Washington was pretty far from the other starting points. Seems to me that the real cause of war in this game is tension over borders or religion, because it wasn't long after Boston started eating into Genghis' personal space that he came knocking with his war elephants.

[DeepO]

Time to go one level up, I think.

DeepO

[Morrissey]

Noble difficulty

DAR1
DAR2
DAR3
DAR4
DAR5
DAR6
DAR7


So anyway... this is my second ever attempt at doing a DAR, the first just kinda petered out when I didn't play Civ for ages. Don't think it'll happen with the new game though.

Playing on Noble as this is only my 6th game of Civ 4.

Founded Washington on the spot and sent the other warrior off exploring to look for nice new city locations and other civs, so the first build was another warrior to stay nearby and scare barbs and animal off. This was a nice starting place to do this thanks to the long river, wait for the big bad animals to come towards you and stand at the other side of the river - works every time (or it has so far, anyway).

Decided to research the wheel first of all, so I'd be nice and prepared when my workers want to build some roads connecting each town. After that, I wanted a religion, so went down the Mysticism route. Someone got to Buddhism before me, but I managed to nab Judaism.

Whilst exploring, my warrior discovered everyone else on the island pretty quickly. I've also found out that if I expand straight up, I can cut other civs off the west of the island as evryone's to the north and east. No open boarders until places are settled then...

Built three cities, plan to send another further east to nab the stone and others to continue northwards to cut off. As soon as I saw tundra to the south I didn't bother going any further, don't think there's anyone else down there.

[joncnunn]

Jon's Dar AU 101 : Noble. Version 1.09

Dar I thru 1520 BC.

4000 BC: Found the capital in place seeing no reason to shift.
Send the warrior to the village, passing Go and collecting 48 gold.
Decide to build a warrior and research Mystism


3800 BC: Washington's culture expands

3720 BC: Finish Mystism and start Polythesism, hoping to found Hindism.

3640 BC: Visit a hut, pass go, and collect 105 gold. Perhaps Financial civs have a higher probabilty of getting cash from goody huts

3520 BC: Finish the warrior. Start a settler. Hindism founded in a distant land.

3400 BC: Budism founded in a distant land.

3360 BC: Visit a 3th hut. This time get 56 gold.

3320 BC: While defending, kill a lion. No damage to the warrior. Start researching the Wheel.

3240 BC: While defending, kill a wolf. Start healing.

3120 BC: Attack and kill a wolf. Next turn promote to Woodmen 1.

3040 BC: Start Masonry

2720 BC: Start a warrior, start reseraching monothesism. Attack and kill a wolf.

2680 BC: Damaged warrior killed by another wolf. Found New York

2480 BC: Start a settler.

2440 BC: Meet the Mongols

2360 BC: New York finishes a Warrior and starts another.

2280 BC: Found Judism in New York and convert. Start researching animal husbany.

2240 BC: Start the switch to Organized Religion. Successfuly defend against a bear, choose Woodmen 1.

2160 BC: New York's culture expands

2080 BC: Kill a Lion, following turn choose Woodmen 1.

2040 BC: New York starts a worker.

2000 BC: Meet Isabella.

1960 BC: The Mongols adopt Slavery

1920 BC: Start reseraching Writing. Discover Horses near New York. Huh, maybe the sugesting of that tile new about it?
Barb warrior discovered guarding a village.

1880 BC: Meet Egypt and Arabs

1720 BC: Meet Bismark

1640 BC: Found Boston

1560 BC : Finish writing and start reseraching the Pristhood. Open the boarders with everyone except Spain & Mongols.

1520 BC : Exploring warrior near Spain killed by a Barb warrior. Bismark converts to Budism.

[ZargonX]

Here's my game thus far, played at Prince.

A History of America

4000 BC: High Chieften George surveyed the lands before him, and he saw that they were good. Lush stalks of corn grew to the southwest, and to the north lay fertile floodplains ripe with possibility. "These lands will feed my people for millenia to come," said George, and thus his people lay down their packs and made their new home: Washington DC.

Immediately George set to work delegating tasks. The training of a new troop of warriors became top priority. Meanwhile, the wisemen of the village began looking into the secrets of the so-called "Wheel."

Elsewhere, George's forward scouts, the 1st DC Regulars, paid a visit to a friendly looking hut in the nearby woods. No one was home, but the found a small sack filled with golden baubles and a note (which they could not yet read) saying merely "33g for your birthday, America."

3640 BC: While the 1st DC continued tromping off to the northeast, High Chief George was pleased to hear that the sages had figured out the secrets of The Wheel. With all of the leftover corners shaved off square stones, George decided to build himself a new throne. From there, he directed the wisemen to look into the secrets of Mining, to see what they could dig up to haul in their new carts.

3600 BC: Over dinner, George receives word that somewhere in the world, a group of people have started worshipping a jolly plump fellow. After some further research indicated they did not mean Santa, George made note of this newfangled "Buddhism."

3520 BC: In a joyous ceremony replete with hats and banners, the 2nd DC Regulars completed their 480 years of training and immediately took up guard duty for DC. George next directed the formation of a worker corps to get busy working those promising floodplains.

3480 BC: Far off in the northeastern wilds, the 1st DC Regular engage in their most exciting activity thus far: a fight to the death with viscious wild panthers! They emerge damaged, but victorious. Armed with this new knowledge of dangerous **** being in the woods, they hunker down to rest.

3400 BC: The American wiseman prove their worth once again, figuring out the secrets of mining. "Yes," said George, "but can't we dig up anything more... interesting?" And so it was that the wiseman headed back to their dark little huts to figure out the concepts of Bronze Working.

3320 BC: Off in the wilds, the 1st DC is shocked to run into another group of stone-club toting gentlemen! They bear word from their attractive leader, Isabella, that Spain is most definitely in existance. They are also apparently the founders of Buddhism, but are polite enough not to try indoctrinating the Americans. Yet.

3240 BC: The meet and greets continue in the woods! The 1st DC stumble upon representatives of Saladin, currently an atheist. At the same time, back at home, George receives word that Hinduism has been founded in a distant, unknown land. How this information reached him? Magic.

3200 BC: The party just doesn't stop! The 1st DC find both Mongolian and German warriors in the woods, sharing stories and lion shanks. After a few rounds of jungle grog, they bond over their mutual atheism, then part on their separate ways.

3040 BC: From the DC Municiple Public Service Hut, a proud new force of workers emerge, ready to road and plant their way into history. With the labor situation looking secure, George gets back to training warriors, because he really loves hitting things with clubs.

2880 BC: Good news and bad news reach George's ears as he sits on his stoney throne. The wisemen have figured out Bronze Working, but there isn't an ounce of bronze to be seen near American lands. So upset by this development, George orders the wiseman to look into Pottery so that he may have something to spit into in disgust.

2800 BC: The 3rd DC Regulars take up their clubs and face the world! Met with cheers and whistles, they head off to the unexplored southwest. With the troops away, George decides its finally time to expand, and orders the assembly of a group of intrepid settlers.

2720 BC: Still in the exotic north, the 1st DC encounter representatives of Hatshse... Hachets... Hasxec... the Egyptians. They are also godless heathens.

2600 BC: Tragic news reaches George from the south: The 3rd DC has been eaten by lions. George, understandably, is heard muttering "Lions? ****ing lions!?" Fortunately, the wiseman have completed reseach into Pottery and have the aforementioned spitting pot at the ready. George orders them to figure out the secrets of Writing so that he may record his anger in a mythic "diary."

In better news, the 1st DC exact vengeance on nature by destroying an assumedly unrelated pack of lions, earning themselves the title of "Woodsman."

2440 BC: After years of hard work, the labor corps. succeeds in connecting delicious corn to Washington DC. George celebrates by eating corn out of a pot, just because he can.

2320 BC: With hugs and kisses from their families, a bold group of settlers heads forth from DC towards a choice spot to the southwest. George knows it is dangerous to send them out alone, armed only with their meager wits, but history rewards the bold. He hopes. On an unrelated note, George starts readying another group of settlers.

2880 BC: In a glorious day for America, the port city of Baltimore is founded. George celebrates by dancing a jig on his lionskin rug while smashing pots with clubs. George orders Baltimore to start training defenses, because while he may be bold, he's not irresponsible.

2080 BC: "Dear Diary, today the wisemen taught us all the mastery of writing." So were written the first words on the Americans. Between fits of giggling, George also managed to write a decree for the wisemen to look into *chortle* Animal Husbandry, so as to take advantage *snicker* of the Baltimorian pigs.

2000 BC: A messenger from Saladin arrives bearing news that the Arabs desire Open Borders with the Americans. Conveniently, the 1st DC are right on his borders, and a shortcut would be most acceptable. George agrees.

1920 BC: The next group of settlers heads north, to the hills beyond the floodplains. George orders the training of a new group of warriors to make up for the 3rd DC lion debacle...

1800 BC: The wisemen complete research on Animal Husbandry, though George decides he really doesn't need the details. He sends them off to work on Iron Working, because the idea of metal clubs is essentially irresistable. Luckily, it also reveals some horses in the vicinity of the soon-to-be settled New York.

Meanwhile, Baltimore trains the 1st Baltimore Regulars, who entrench themselves in town. Now, George is a wise and just leader, but he is a also a man who craves for battle. He hungers for a heap of battle between two slices of conquest, served with a side of pillaging. In short, he tells Baltimore to build a barracks.

To the north, the city of New York is founded in the hills overlooking the mighty floodplains. The city begins training defenses immediately.

Finally, at home in DC, the 4th DC Regulars complete their training and make a beeline for New York. George decides that a granary would be good to prevent all the seasons delicious corn from going to waste.

1600 BC: Haxelthusphtsb contacts George asking if they can have an Open Border agreement. Not wishing to cause a diplomatic upset by calling her by the wrong name, George quickly agrees and concludes the meeting.

1560 BC: More religions! Judaism is founded in a distant land, and George just can't figure out what all the fuss is about. Speaking of religion, Isabella asks for an Open Border agreement despite George's dedicated atheism. George is suspicious, but accepts.

And so comes to a close the first chapter of the History of America. A look at the Empire thus far...

[Thrar]

Originally posted by DeepO
At Monarch, the bronze site is no option anymore: I can't see anyone settling, and holding it.

Well, I don't have the bronze site (will get it once I flip Isabella's city there I hope), but I'm on Genghis' own gold - does that count? In fact we both have a city there, but mine is the more cultured one.

Relations are perfect with him, I don't see any war coming up, we are trading several resources. Of course things may change, but so far (end of DAR3) it looks pretty secure up there. On emperor.

[vulture]

Joining in rather late..

The executive summary:

(EDIT : Prince difficulty)

The strategy I end up following is to try and expand towards the relatively blockable neck of land to the NE to control both lobes of the peninsula - the bottom can be filled out later. To that end, I've refused all offers of 'open borders' treaties, which may come back to bite me later. I've met just about all other civs. Tech wise, I'm trying a strategy going for alphabet and trading my way into a good position. The downside is that I'm way behind in tech, haven't got any of the 3 early religions, and don't have many improvements or useful military units to build. And I still can't chop trees, which is hampering me slightly.

Back to 4000 BC:

We have wines and corn in view, and a goody hut. The warrior moves to the hut, and gets a map of the area, revealing the coast, three ivory sources, one cow and one gold. The settler builds a city where he starts, and the FoW revealed b the borders show a nearby silk source to the SE, and some pigs to the SW. We start researching roads with a view to connecting to the nearby resources as soon as possible; animal husbandry will likely be the next tech to go for. Building starts off with a warrior, but will switch to worker when we hit size 2. We want to try and preserve the 5 forests in the city radius to counteract the effects of the floodplains.

The warrior starts exploring towards the goody hut to the east, and quickly discovers a nearby bit of coastline with some cows. We have three health resources very near by, and one luxury. Not too bad, and given the floodplains, the health will be useful. The next move uncovers stone - very useful for building stonehenge quickly for early culture.

Our warrior reaches the hut in 3760 BC (discovering some wheat en route), and is rewarded with the discovery of mining.

In 3600 BC, someone founds Buddhism, and my warrior is complete. I changed plans and finished the warrior off before moving on the worker (only 2 extra turns).

Our first exploring warrior kills a lion, and the second one finds some tundra and another goody hut. He gets jumped by a wolf before getting to the hut, but survives with only a scratch. Then we meet a Mongolian scout, who has nothing useful to say for himself. The following turn Bismark turns up in the same spot, up by the gold. Neighbours to the north is seems.

Uncovering the hut to the south gives us a scout, so the scout heads off to explore more efficiently while the warrior heads back home to do some guard duty. That plan lasts all of one turn, until the scout gets eaten by bears. Warrior goes back out exploring again.

For research, the strategy is to go for archers and then on to alphabet to trade for the othertechs we lack. Hinduism has been founded, and Judaism probably isn't far behind - we have no chance of getting to it first, so we have to aim for a later religion. As we explore more, it looks a lot like we need to expand to the north and east, and can control the land to our south via a chokepoint to expand in to later.

Our warrior exploring the south gets revenge on those bears, and then kills some lions for good measure, before finding another hut which gives us another scout. Once again, he heads for home, but is unfortunately killed by wild animals on the way (damn - should have healied him more). The southern region has a good supply of furs and other resources. We definitely want to control this area, which means blocking the chokepoint and not signing open borders treaties until we've got the area safe.

Back home the city has produced 2 warrior, and is now building our first settler. We have farmed the corn and one floodplain, and will but a cottage on another one (as soon as we have pottery) to boost our science output. Until then, we have a pretty good settler pump here, with a lot of excess food. Our science research detours to take in pottery after writing to enable cottages. We also find another village, which gives us 54 gold. Village results have been doing pretty well so far.

Our first settler goes out, rather late, in 2160 BC, with an aim to settling the blue spots in the first wave, and try and get some cultural expansion to control this peninsula. Shortly after this we run in to the Arabs, and then the Spanish. Looks like things are going to be rather crowded in the north. We turn down an open borders deal with the Mongols, which is a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. Washington carries on building settlers, while New York start on a barracks.

The 2000 BC tech review reveals that we are last in technology. Not wholly surprising, since we are going for more expensive techs to get to alphabet, and hopefully make up the difference in trading. Whether this will work in CIV or not...

Having fully explored our peninsula, we are now exploring out to the north, and have come across the first Mongol borders. Also turned down an open borders offer from Isabella. I think it will be tough to blockade the whole peninsula, but we can hope. Shortly after this we run into Egypt. It seems like just about everyone is on this continent.

By tradition I miss the DAR report date. My third city is founded in 1440 BC, which is only 2 turns after the date, so that's a good a point as any to stop for this one. I'm still a few turns from alphabet, but can churn out settlers as fast as I need to now. I need to start getting some luxury resources hooked up as my next priority, and getting some culture going. Most of this is going to depend quite strongly on how much tech trading I can get done to catch up.

The end of DAR screenshot is below:



Only 3 cities, and way behind in tech, does not a happy civ make. There is a definite downside to the alphabet beeline.


My approximate city layout plan is below:

The city sites are colour coded roughly in order of prioty: blue, red, green yellow, with yellow obviously being the least important (to me).

The initial idea was to settle the blue city sites first, then the red. I've got the first two blue sites, but I may give up on the third. Genghis isn't far away, and taking the two red city sites (1 and 2 on the diagram) will let me block off the peninsula once the borders expand. The third blue site doesn't really contribute to that - I'd still need city '1' anyway to shut things off quickly enough.

After those cities are built (if they are), the next cities will be placed according to need, but obviously aiming for the green sites. I'm happiness limited at the moment, so need to get some luxury resources in use. I might also need to get a good manufacturing center - I'll have to see how things are looking once I get to 5 cities. I dearly need to get a religion before too long. Right now my only culture buildings are libraries, which are expensive. There are basically a lot of things I need to do, which I can't right now due to lack of appropriate techs. The one thing I can do is build up a military to make usre my 4-city blockade can be defended adequately.

I think I'm going to have a very short DAR for the next one - the classical era is just around the corner.

For those keeping score of hut results, I got 1 map, 1 tech (mining), 2 scouts and 54 gold.