AU 100-A DAR 1: 4000 BC - 1520 BC

[Kidinnu]

Noble difficulty

Well, reading everybody else reveals plenty of errors. But here's what I did:

Built Washington on the starting square. {Wish I'd moved east.} Queue warrior, worker.
I don't have mysticism, so I won't try for an early religion. Thinking of the capital as a settler/worker pump, I'm not going for Pottery first off. Technology plan: wheel, mining, bronzeworking. {I was thinking road to the corn, but already knowing about all the flood plains I should have realized I'd hit happiness caps before health. In hindsight, the AI has apparently been really slow with religions - Isabella got Buddhism early, but Hinduism didn't come until after 2000 BC!}
My first warriors explore southeast; spotting the desert and ocean, they turn southwest and skirt the tundra. Second warrior, when built, heads north and west. {So I missed both the stone/ivory to the east and the hills by the wine to the north.}
Village in the southwest yields bronzeworking, just a couple of turns before I would have discovered it myself. (All the other villages I found yielded gold, about $200) This leaves me really unsure of a technology plan - I didn't have a chance to scan for copper nearby. I go for pottery and writing, thinking about alphabet - although I have my doubts, not having met anybody yet.
Washington queues a settler.
Meet Bismarck's scouts in 2960, Genghis Khan's in 2520.
I now see I have no copper nearby, and worry about defense.
Tech plan: hunting, archery, masonry, alphabet.
I send the settlers southwest to the coast of the peninsula near stone, founding New York. {In retrospect, this site was too food-poor to grow; I should have stayed farther east, as most others did. One of my goals in this game was to get out of the habit of a close spacing, but the resources I got access to - sheep, fish - aren't resources I really need, since happiness looks like much more of a problem.} Workers have irrigated corn and floodplains near Washington and built road; now they run a road to NY and start a quarry.
Genghis Khan has a warrior and three scouts around me, so I start worrying, and build a barracks in Washington. {Another mistake - it'll always be low in production. But New York's site won't be much better.}
Meet Isabella in 2320; she got Buddhism early, but no sign of other religions having been discovered. Saladin in 2280, Hapshepsut in 2000. I find Karakand about now
Gibbon's power assessment in 1960 ranks me #4 (Saladin, Genghis, Bismarck, me, ?, Hapshepsut, Isabella)
After Gibbon's announcement, I realize Washington's grown too much - it's into unrest because it's unprotected. {A common failing of mine is to build too little military. Luckily I can usually get away with it early on Noble, and I've had enough setbacks in games that I'm getting better about it most of the time. I'm not used to being so production-poor, though, and although I realized it early I haven't behaved consistently because of it. Sometimes I think my play suffers because I'm often interrupted. Here I built a barracks, not thinking that I should just churn out a warrior and then let some other city specialize in military.}
In 1760, I spot my first barbarian warriors. By 1600, there are several near me in the south, but they all tussle with the AI warriors and scouts rather than taking my undefended cities. At this point I have open borders with Saladin, Genghis, and Isabella, trying to be friendly, but still neutral (Cautious, +0) relations.

The screenshot's one turn too late, but shows what I've got to work with. Having met nearly everybody I'm hoping an early Alphabet lets me do some tech trading, or at least get a better idea of where the competition is. I need to: get two to three more cities out (N, E, and maybe NW), start producing great people in my capital (and a couple more workers), and get some military on the frontier. Plenty of errors already; AU's teaching me, and I just hope I can learn something from it.

[Arrian]

Ok, I'm really late to the party. My notes, which are really good for this DAR, are at home, but I wanted to comment on a few things. I played on Prince, btw.

First, like a few others (Cort, Lockstep, DeepO and Thror), I moved my settler east and settled there, so as to get the hills in the workable radius.

I researched Animal Husbandry first, but got it from a hut 4-5 turns before I'd have finished it, which was a little annoying (I'd rather have gotten something else and finished Animal normally).

My starting warrior was eaten by bears not long into the game, despite being in a forest and across a river. Toast.

I later built a scout that did ok after having several close calls (lions, wolves).

I built New York at Washington 2223 (coast, near cows, horses once I got a border expansion). Boston was to the SW, directly between the coast and the lake by the pigs.

I have no screenshots from ancient times (what is the hotkey to take/save the screenies I see people in this thread making??) and my first save is from 1400 AD (!). Typical me, eh?

Some things I noticed in other people's screenshots:

1) Many people went with a looser build than I did. I feel my somewhat tighter build helped me, but it *did* cost me the ivory site to the east. Isa-freakin'-bella got there first.

2) Lots of people seemed to prioritize grabbing the wines to the north/northeast. Why? I mean, wines are nice, but no more so than seveal other luxuries. I saw a number of New Yorks built up off the river on a hill to grab all the wines. Didn't seem worth it - you lose the health bonus from the river. You do gain +25% defense for that city, of course.

More later, once I can access my notes.

-Arrian

[chriseay]

Originally posted by Arrian
I built New York at Washington 2223 (coast, near cows, horses once I got a border expansion). Boston was to the SW, directly between the coast and the lake by the pigs.
-Arrian

Ok, just a quick question on this - what does Washington 2223 mean? I am I correct in assuming that is the numpad movement from Washington?

[Arrian]

Correct. My Washington, of course, is "6" of most people's, because I moved one tile east before settling.

-Arrian

[Kidinnu]

Arrian, I think the other reason to build on a (plains) hill is that they produce 2/2/1, instead of 2/1/1 like all other city sites. So you get an initial production boost, even without a worker, and long-term I think it's about equivalent to a windmill on that hill?

[Arrian]

Right, right. I didn't realize that was a plains hill.

Another thing I noticed: many people expanded aggressively north/northeast, whereas I expanded a bit more "organically" in that I kinda expanded equally in all directions. This clearly cost me ivory and the chance to really hem Ghengis and/or Isabella in. On the other hand, neither one attacked me for a good long time (Isabella eventually took a crack at me, too little and too late) and I still ended up bigger & stronger. Ghengis, however, is a power in my game.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Has anyone found that a policy of move-and-check on flat ground can preserve a scout? I haven't had enough scouts to try this with so far, It's the second move that tends to meet the bear, by which time it's too late. Single moves, unless a forest is available for the second, and retreating if needed, might be slow, but it's quicker than building another warrior and sending it out to where the ex-scout got to.

I don't think it's worth it vs animals, unless heading for somewhere specific and not in a rush. Like ending exploration phase, and moving to sentry. Once the Barb Warriors show up though, I tend to go exclusively move and check with Scouts if I want to keep them. Sometimes it's better to free up the unit support costs though, in which case full steam ahead.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Sometimes it's better to free up the unit support costs though, in which case full steam ahead.

Something more or less related:

I've thought before on going very worker heavy at first, disband them when every early thing is build, and later build workers again when lumber mills/RR appear (which will still eb around by the time Biology needs a couple of adjustment in terrain as well). I don't do that, though, as I figured that the support cost is not hurting me that much... so I simply tend to build fewer workers, and use them longer.

If you're very Dutch about your support costs, does that mean you tend to overbuild workers at first, disband them later, and rebuild (or conquer) them afterwards?
And, do you keep obsolete units around for happiness issues? I very rarely will disband a warrior when using hereditary rule, even if it won't give me a bonus at that very moment.

DeepO

[Arrian]

DAR I:

Prince Level.

4000 BC - Start looks solid. River, corn, floodplains, forest, etc. Popped hut w/warrior, got maps L This reveals some promising terrain to the east, however, including another hut near some ivory on a river. Mmmm.

Moved settler one tile east and founded (to get the hills in the radius).

Ah! Silks too. Nice. Work silks, begin worker. Set research to Animal Husbandry (I always think of Ani-MAL! from Sesame Street… ANIMAL!!!).

3880bc – our exploring warriors see stone! Mmm, Pyramids!

3760bc – 2nd hut popped. Well, I got good news and I got bad news. Good news: tech, yay! Bad news: I got Animal, which I was already researching. Still, not bad. Research set to the wheel.

3520bc – DISASTER! Our brave warriors are slaughtered mercilessly by bears. I had moved them so they were in a forest and the bears had to cross a river, but still the bears won. Damn.

3400 – Worker built, wheel discovered. Next up – mining. Build warrior.

3120 – Mining discovered… my exploration to this point has been terrible due to the death of my starting warriors. I therefore chose hunting, which I wouldn’t normally do yet.

3040 – warrior complete, Washington size 2, now using farmed corn and the silk. I decide to start on a settler, with the intention of sticking a scout in there once hunting is done in a few turns.

2880 – hunting discovered, build switched to scout. Writing next.

2600 – Scout complete. Washington now size 4 (farmed corn, farmed floodplain, silk, regular forest). Back to the settler.

2520 – Scout narrowly defeats lions. Well, at least they lived.

2440 – meet Ghengis Khan (oh, great), who has the same score as I do.

2360 – Our scout, still healing from his last battle, narrowly survives a wolf attack. Promoted him to hill defender type. Settler complete, warrior next. Writing complete, mysticism next.

2280 – New York founded on the coast by the cows (Wash 2223). Washington size 5.

2200 – Gold from hut (scout). Meet Bismarck. Open borders with him and Ghengis. I’m leading in score now.

2160 – Warrior complete. Start another settler… risky since I want the Oracle, but I’ll take the risk.

2040 – Warrior complete in New York, begin another. Meet Saladin. Open borders.

1720 – Boston founded 1144 of Washington (coast, pigs, lake). Research proceeding toward priesthood. Washington now up against its happiness limit, is using two (undeveloped, arg!) hills and a citizen laborer while building a library.

1600 – Priesthood. Start CoL & Oracle. Meet Hap of Egypt and Isabella of Spain. Open borders w/all.

HERE THERE BE DRAGONS. To put it another way, my notes trail off into oblivion for a while. The next event I saw fit to record was in 900 bc.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

I've disbanded or even given away Workers. I don't make a point of it, but especially after conquering a developed neighbor, and capturing so many Workers, I find I have way too many Workers. (I've also given away entire armies to the civ I just made peace with, so they can fight my ally... )

Unit support costs can strangle an economy. City maintenance and civic upkeep have to be dealt with, but unit support costs don't. I'd rather have fewer units, and more potential to build/rush/upgrade/draft units, than the other way around.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
I've disbanded or even given away Workers. I don't make a point of it, but especially after conquering a developed neighbor, and capturing so many Workers, I find I have way too many Workers. (I've also given away entire armies to the civ I just made peace with, so they can fight my ally... )

Unit support costs can strangle an economy. City maintenance and civic upkeep have to be dealt with, but unit support costs don't. I'd rather have fewer units, and more potential to build/rush/upgrade/draft units, than the other way around.

If so, at least this doesn't change over levels. I did the same thing gifting units away from noble onwards (the moment you don't know what to do anymore, gifting or disbanding is a logical choice). The need for that seems to have lowered in 1.09, as Soren tweaked the AI, it seems. You won't capture workers so easily anymore.

and unit costs: the first time you're losing part of your attack force because you're running a deficit while at 0 gold, you are learning a lesson. A single look on F2 can learn a lot of things.

One thing I don't know, though, is how the different unit costs are calculated. It seems easy: one part for all units in general, one part for those outside your borders. You get a couple of freebies in every category. However, I can't ever figure it out precisely. Have you?

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by DeepO
Is it just me, or did most of the players got a scout at some part in their early expansion? I've seen at least two scouts at 4000 BC (Aeson and my own), but plenty report scouts later...

DeepO

I don't recall getting any scouts - I think 2 warriors, 2 maps, 2 gold caches and then the 7th hut surrounded me with barbs, almost Civ-1 style.

Over and over in these DAR's I see the barbs founding a city on the exact same square in the SW tundra - with lots of resources around. That's consistency and quality! We all kept it. I think many of us also had AI settling crap spots down there that even the barbs wouldn't touch!

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by DeepO

One thing I don't know, though, is how the different unit costs are calculated. It seems easy: one part for all units in general, one part for those outside your borders. You get a couple of freebies in every category. However, I can't ever figure it out precisely.

DeepO

That F2 unit cost display has been driving me mad - I can't work it out, I can't plan the costs for a campaign or defensive boost, and I can't even predict whether 1 more or less unit wil make a difference. That 'handicap' number seems to make itself up as it goes along.

[Arrian]

I got maps from the first hut, tech from the 2nd, then my unit died. When I built a scout I popped 2-3 more huts and IIRC I got gold from them all.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Over and over in these DAR's I see the barbs founding a city on the exact same square in the SW tundra - with lots of resources around. That's consistency and quality! We all kept it. I think many of us also had AI settling crap spots down there that even the barbs wouldn't touch!

Yeah, I noticed that furs city was in many games. Did many people get the northwestern barb town I did (Vandal, in my game)? I didn't see it... but that's a solid spot. It's got a sea resource and a land food source (corn or wheat, I think).

-Arrian