Initial Civ IV AU Courses

[nbarclay]

I'd like to propose two courses, one a regular course and the other more of a special seminar, to get us going really quickly with Civ 4.

The first one is "AU 141: Interoduction to Civ IV." The idea of this course is to get experience playing Civ 4 on essentially random maps and to share that experience with each other so we can learn more quickly than we would on our own. What I'm thinking is go ahead and set up 3 games - 141A, 141B, and 141C - and let players play as few or as many of them as they can find time for. To develop the maps, the people setting up the scenarios would let map generator generate a random map and pick a starting position with no criteria other than that the starting position be no worse than reasonably average. (We can learn how to deal with bad starts later.) Also, in this game, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying experiments that lead to losing the game or to digging oneself in a hole that makes continuing the game no longer any fun. After all, the whole point is to learn and share our experiences, and experiments that blow up in our faces may be one of the best sources of learning. If there are people who finish the first three games before we're ready for our next course, we could add more.

Ideally, each scenario would be set up by a different person so scenario designers will have scenarios they can play without advanced information. I'd be willing to design one of the scenarios myself, but since I preordered from Amazon using the cheapest shipping option, I'll likely be a few days behind some other people in getting the game.

[nbarclay]

My second idea is "AU Special Seminar 4-1: Experimenting with Testbed Scenarios." The idea of this seminar is for anyone who wants to to develop testbed scenarios for experimenting with particular features of the game (for example, the combat system) and share them with the AU community. They and anyone else who is interested can then experiment with the testbed scenarios and post the results of their experiments. Such experimentation would be likely to teach us more about certain aspects of the game's mechanics more quickly than regular games would.

An example of a testbed scenario would be one where a player is given an assault force to attack an AI city, with the object being to see how different strategies for using the force compare. (Note that this would be most productive if the scenario is based on something that happened in an actual game.) Another example might be to use a regular scenario as a testbed for experimenting with different early-game strategies and seeing how they compare (for example, figuring out the best timing for building early settlers and workers). If we work together on this kind of thing, we should be able to learn a lot about the game's mechanics very quickly.

[ZargonX]

Good ideas, nbarclay. I think that definitely a general "welcome to CIV" course to start off with is wise, as it will give us the best overview before diving into the nitty-gritty details.

[bigfatjonny]

Yes please, im in.

Im in the UK so I dont get it until the 4th.
Can someone who has the game already make up the senarios so I can use them as soon as I get it.

We could discuss what difficulty level, civilizations & world type to use for each game. Or maybe the same for each game just a new world map?

[Konquest02]

I think that the seminar will naturally arise from the "Welcome to CIV" game. Each person is likely to encounter various problems, we just need someone to diagnose one of his problems and setup a kind of "What would you do?" scenario...

[Dominae]

Thanks for getting the ball rolling Nathan!

Your first proposal sounds great to me, the natural way to kick off the semester. However I think we should start thinking about thematic games sooner than later because it's my impression that these give the AU courses much of their appeal; many of us will be playing "random" games once we get our hands on the game, and the new 'Poly tournament games are also likely to be random-esque as well. Themes are a good way to set AU apart.

As for you second idea, I'm personally not as enthused by it. It's great if individual players want to conduct such tests of their own volition, but making them an official part of the program (even if labelled "advanced") might alienate a lot of the more casual or first-time students. What I'm rather hoping for (as I just mentioned above) is that each uses his or her own report (AAR/DAR) to explore whatever he or she feels is interesting or pertinent. Indeed, if the more hardcore players start doing this on a regular basis, they might serve as a model for everyone else.

[conmcb25]

One does the first AU game come out?

[nbarclay]

My idea was for the "special seminar" to be something that goes on alongside the regular courses, not a substitute for any regular courses or something that would slow down the regular course schedule. It would not be something offered "for credit" (hence the "special seminar" designation), but just an additional source of learning that AU students can make use of if they are interested in doing so. Since participation would be entirely optional, without even the degree of expectation that people are supposed to participate that exists with regular courses, I would hope people wouldn't find it intimidating enough to pose a problem.

There are three reasons why I'd like to establish some organization to testbed experimentation.

1) It would help people learn from other people's testbed experiments in a more organized and efficient way.

2) It would reduce duplication of effort because people could use or adapt testbed scenarios developed by others instead of developing their own from scratch.

3) It would spark greater interest in the use of testbed scenarios as a source of learning, and might encourage people to conduct experiments for the benefit of the entire community that they would not consider worth the effort to develop solely for their own purposes.

The organization could be done in the strategy forum, but I think Apolyton University would be a better place for it - partly because hosting a repository of testbed scenarios and lessons learned from them could help enhance the University's prestige and thus attract more interest to it.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by conmcb25
One does the first AU game come out?

Probably as soon as someone who has the game feels comfortable creating a scenario, at least if no one has any objections to my proposal for AU 141. (Note that we want to work from a scenario rather than a regular game so players can have a choice regarding what difficulty level to play at, at least assuming the game ships with an editor that's up to the task.) I'd do it myself but I don't have the game yet.

[Arrian]

I have the game and I could probably figure out how to create that sort of basic scenario, but I'm NOT sure I can correctly identify a decent starting spot yet!

Should we go for shorter games (small maps), or standard settings across the board?

-Arrian

[ZargonX]

I have the game and I could probably figure out how to create that sort of basic scenario, but I'm NOT sure I can correctly identify a decent starting spot yet!

Heh, I feel the same way. I think the concept of "good starting spot" is far less cut and dry then it was in Civ3, and that's definitely a good thing.

[Dominae]

Compared to Civ3, almost all starting locations are "good" now. There are few "duds".

Of course, this just raises the bar...

[Arrian]

There are few "duds".

Good - saves time Of course, witness the English in Sullla's walkthrough. Yikes.

I figure if it's on a river and has a bit 'o livestock, you're lookin' good. I think my first game start (full city radius) had:

River, two floodplains, one oasis, one cow, spices? (something that required a plantation and wasn't bananas), a bunch of forest, some grass, and a couple of plains.

Seemed solid to me.

-Arrian

[duckilama]

Should we go for shorter games (small maps), or standard settings across the board?

The standard map seems quite a bit smaller than C3's standard map, at least to me.

[padillah]

I would love to help...

I would love to help but what are we talking about?

I've always wanted to get into modding and such but never found a reason. What would be needed? What are the basics of what we are doing? To quote: Throw me a frickin bone, people.

Tom P.
"If you are flamable and have legs you are never blocking a fire exit." - Mitch Hedberg