Warlord Game Strategy Discussion

[Brael]

Hmm, it's worth trying. It seems like a logic error with the AI then since it's not intentionally using flanking damage. Do you know the threshold for it deciding to attack?

[wodan11]

My disaffection with the AI programming notwithstanding, I don't think it's as simple as a straightforward threshold. I think how many "extra" units the AI has sitting around is a factor (if the AI has a ton of units I've seen it just piss them away), how long the opportunity to attack has existed (I've experienced what I can only descibe as the AI sitting there for a while and finally getting bored and saying "what the f*ck" and attacking) as well as how many units you have in the stack (I think the AI is more reluctant to attack a stack of 10 than a stack of 2, even if the exact same strong "front" unit was there), etc.

[Brael]

Hmm, that makes things more complicated then. What I was trying to figure out is to see if you could determine what you would need as a mounted deterrent against different types of units. Horse archers are 15% withdrawl, knights are 0% (camel archers have 15% though), Cavalry are 30%, gunships are 25%. On top of the standard flanking 1 the AI seems to give, I don't see flanking 2 added much. Because of that, the amount of units you need in different eras to prevent an attack would most likely be different.

[Brael]

I suppose one solution would be to make use of mobility, since you're already in your own terrain, send the cat up to attack then have it run away. An enemy knight (or whatever else) would be pretty unlikely to go out on it's own and attack, especially if there was one or two anti mounted units to guard it.

[Theben]

If you attach a GG to seige, does it open the Combat line of promos? I know they nerfed that with later BtS patches.

[Surprise!]

With the far smaller army would pacifism turn into an economically viable way to spam your GP if you are going for a non dom or conquest victory with this strategy?

[Ming]

That is one of the advantages of this apporach. Your army can be much smaller and pacifism can work for you.
But yes, only if you are going for a non dom or conquest victory, because if you are, you need more troops than just your limited 24 or so CG units.

[wodan11]

If you attach a GG to seige, does it open the Combat line of promos? I know they nerfed that with later BtS patches.

If they did, I was unaware of it.

[Thoth]

If they did, I was unaware of it.

As of BTS siege units cannot take the combat line of promotions.


(adding a GG might change that, I haven't attached a GG to a siege unit since Warlords)

[rah]

Ok, something else to test this weekend.

I don't think it's as simple as a straightforward threshold. I think how many "extra" units the AI has sitting around is a factor (if the AI has a ton of units I've seen it just piss them away), how long the opportunity to attack has existed (I've experienced what I can only descibe as the AI sitting there for a while and finally getting bored and saying "what the f*ck" and attacking) as well as how many units you have in the stack (I think the AI is more reluctant to attack a stack of 10 than a stack of 2, even if the exact same strong "front" unit was there), etc.

My experience also. I've seen a smaller sod come into my territory, move up to the city then back off, move up to the city, back off, in an almost endless cycle and the finally attack when the odds are worse then when they first got there.
And yes, if the AI has lots of units it seem more eager to attack against odd that no human would chance.

[rah]

Well I tried again this weekend on EMP. Same civ as before. Somewhat in the middle again with the mongols north and the chinese behind me so I figured there would be more than enough fighting to go around. I generated a good half dozen general from the mongols. I did more flanking and tactics, (earlier mounted GGs) and if nothing else, I didn't lose one early. After the mongols pettered out, I went out and took their cities. As I finished I was getting cannons and noticed the CHinese had a stack of about 60 units so I DOWed him. The stack moved onto my territory where it lasted 2 turns. His kingdom was defenseless so I made sure I didn't have to worry about behind me. And 4 more GGs. I quickly got rifles and now had only one small gap to defend between me and the rest of the continent. Perfect for laying back and getting a few more generals. All of a sudden Jao declares and moves a stack of about 60 units, mostly INfantry. With the help of about 20 cannons my uber rifles and cav were up to the task. Two turns later an equally large stack arrived and every coastal resource was pillaged by destroyers and battleships. The 6 or so cannons left from the first wave helped me really hurt his second SOD but my defenses were wavering. I finished researching railroad ( i thought i'd need iron clads to defend my shoreline against frigates, not realizing how far Jao was ahead.) only to discover that despite having control to close to 50% of the entire land mass, I had no coal and the closest coal was 10 squares deep into enemy territory.

And the then third SOD showed up. GAME over.

I guess I can't get to focused on the GG generation part and have to remember that I'm trying to win a game also.

I will try again, because even though I got my ass kicked in the end, it was still a riot.

It is teaching more about how to take advantage of the imper. trait which previously I didn't really use well in mp games.

[Brael]

Has anyone thought of trying this using charismatic instead of imperialistic? It places more importance on the GW but the extra promotions would mean more non GG guys hit that super unit status.

Charismatic offers up some interesting choices. I think a really interesting one would be Boudica. Think about this, the Celtic building usually well... sucks. However in a game like this you want to preserve your units. As was pointed out before, one of the best ways to do that is with withdrawal promotions. The Dun adds guerrilla 1 to every unit produced there, meaning once gunpowder rolls around you're one less expensive promotion away from giving that unit a 50% chance to survive an attack it would otherwise likely lose. Then with charismatic, those promotions you do need are even cheaper. On top of that Boudica has aggressive saving you yet another promotion. I bet with everything combined you're looking at a 120+ exp savings on a super unit so even with the reduced number of generals having lots of them isn't going to be quite so important in the first place. Oh and also thanks to that guerrilla you can defend better before gunpowder.

If all that doesn't make her sound interesting, since the great wall is even more appealing in this case. The celts start with mysticism to not only get you an early religion but function as a prereq to masonry (GW+Dun) but they also start with hunting for an early scout and a path to both horses and archers.

What civ did you use rah?

[rah]

Cyrus, charismatic and imperialistic. The 100% generation bonus makes imperialistic a requirement in my opinion. The one I'm doing now is Catherine.

[Brael]

Well, Imp certainly helps but I'm not so sure it's required because regardless of if you have it or not, not every unit is going to be a warlord unit.

I'm going to give it a shot with Boudica, I think she has some real potential.

[rah]

Imp gives you twice as many GGs. That's pretty required in my books.