Alone with Space, No Luxuries

[rah]

MP = Multi-player

I'll try to be better.

[wodan11]

I'd rather get more specialists working fast to bulb my way out.

If cities are making settlers&workers then they are NOT growing to run specialists. Meanwhile, the city making Pyramids is indeed growing and can run specialists immediately upon whipping a library, or other as desired.

Opportunity for using early specialists doesn't mean having to build the 'Mids...

Already agreed with this.

What? Being able to grow to work half a dozen more cottages (or prod/farm/specialists if going that route) is "doing something for better science development" in my book.

There's a price tag for that, though. Happy for 6 cottages (or whatever) under HR costs 6 military, say @ 35 = about 200 hammers. Meanwhile, Rep provides 15 happy (more than 6).

To match the 15 happy HR would have to build 15 units, @ 35 = 535, which is more than Pyramids!!

Btw you're a real piece of work when debating. Every other sentence is a smug implication that the other party sucks or has no idea what he's talking about.

For the record, I tend to agree that various people sometimes couch their comments as something wrong with the other person. I'm guilty of this myself sometimes and I do my best when posting to actively avoid this. Don't attack the person, attack the argument.

Anytime I say "you" I try to give it a second look.

[rah]

Thanks, I overlooked the cost of the military to keep those extra people happy.

Don't attack the person, attack the argument.

Figured one of us ex-mods would have pulled that line out first
Sometimes it's good to be bad.

[Blaupanzer]

I asked the original question, and am having a bit of difficulty w/the answers. First, the abbreviations can be confusing. Second, the only question is not the Pyramids ('mids) and early representation. Happiness is limited w/o HR to 3 extra in five cities, once the 'mids are built. This island/small continent will support 10 good cities and two very marginal resource cities. Ignoring the last two, this would be 5 cities with happiness issues keeping them small. All can easily be 10+ citizen cities and the dead capitol the barbs killed has 3 sea and 2 land food sources plus grassland horses and plains copper. Obviously this other civ was supposed to be my first challenge. Not sure early rep here would be a good idea. Am I doomed to fall behind in development and science to the tech-sharing world below?

We are with one exception all SE cities. I did except one city with two hammer resources and 6 floodplains, and took it in the Cottage spam (CE) direction. We did ultimately find one silver, which helped a little. One of those "silver has appeared in _____'s land." A mine made it to the bigtime.

How can early rep help an already SE culture produce sufficient happiness to take advantage of those beakers? 10 cities and on Monarch difficulty means a lot of very limited growth situations, and us with all this food. Lots of two food special cities and no water in several cities. And as noted earlier, little bands of desert/hills/mountains prevent CS-style long irrigation city-to-city.

[-Jrabbit]

There are way to many abbreviations in this thread. Is it really so hard to type the whole word out so that some of us can figure out what the **** you're saying?

Right on.

[rah]

You may not be able to take maximum benefit from it in this circumstance. But besides calculating the difference with the extra cottages being worked due to a higher happiness level, don't the larger cities have a higher maint cost also?

[wodan11]

Is everyone stone deaf when I keep saying CULTURE SLIDER?

[wodan11]

I mean... I get that we diverged and started talking about Representation. But I've mentioned it several times.

[rah]

It's a mortal sin to use the culture slider so no one admits to using it.
If you're using the culture slider for happiness you're taking it from science so I would think that the having that extra person not unhappy wouldn't make up for the loss of the science percentage.

I personally only use the culture slider when I'm stubborn during a long war and refuse to switch to emancipation because I want to whip new conquered cities down to levels easier to manage. And to boost the culture in those newly captured border cities, but in general, I NEVER touch the culture slider.

I have to assume that most people feel the same way, and that's why people are ignoring your comments.

[wodan11]

Maybe I need to be more clear.

For every 10% culture, you gain 1 happiness. (and more for theatre, colosseum, and broadcast tower).

And guess what? If you're running a pure SE, it doesn't matter how high you crank the slider because you aren't generating much commerce anyway. All your research comes from specialists.

[rah]

Unless its a UB with special powers., I rarely build colosseums in any more than 1 or 2 cities.
I've never built a broadcast tower, only freebies from the wonder. For theatres, don't you need 20%. (and others). No way I'm burning 20% of my science slider.

[wodan11]

If you're using the culture slider for happiness you're taking it from science

Then that's not pure SE.

All we lose is the oddball commerce from rivers or elephants or something. And not even all of that. 20% or 40% on the slider gives you a lot of happiness, especially with a theatre. Say we have a river, so we're getting what, maybe 5-6 commerce from it? So we lose 30% of that background commerce, 1-2 commerce, in exchange for the happiness we need to work an extra 3-5 tiles or run 3-5 specialists? Good grief, open your mind, Quaid!

(Honestly it's probably what you say rah people are conditioned against it or something. Seriously it boggles me how people are stuck in the same strategic ruts and are still playing this game. I would have been bored out of my mind years ago if I always played the same way each game.)

[rah]

I think less conditioned but not fully understanding the impact. I've never sat down and calculated the difference. My only concern is the number of beakers. When I move the science slider down 20% my beakers decrease and in general even after I reassign my specialists, it doesn't return to where it was. Now granted I don't think I've ever run a pure Specialist economy due to need to be able to finance that large army outside my territory.
But because of your comments, I'll have to look at it more closely the next time.

I do lose patience later in the game and sometimes just go through the motions to finish it. For me the joy is getting to that point. Which is one of the reasons that I read a lot on the forums, to keep me thinking.

[wodan11]

But because of your comments, I'll have to look at it more closely the next time.

Look at it as learning to play a new game. Should be fun, not a chore.

Your cities with more production can make both gold and research buildings and run merchants at 33, while those with less production can just make research buildings. And you can always Build Gold. You should be building gold or research a good bit of the game in many cities. Once you figure out that you can get +20 happiness per city simply by having a Theatre, you can omit quite a few buildings as useless. And, a SE does not need gold buildings in its research cites, only in the few cities that you want to run merchants in. Add all that up and there's a lot you can skip, letting you run max specialists and all food (caste system is a wonderful thing), or build gold/research.

anyway I'm rambling. Off to dinner.

[Ming]

That's the nice thing about civ... there are ton's of ways to play it. And contrary to what "some people" want to believe, there is no "best way" that applies to every situation. Each situation is different, and there are still many different ways to get a victory.