Metaliturtle's Strategy Thread

[Metaliturtle]

This is intended to serve as a place to discuss strategy along the lines of Vel's Strategy Guide There is the link for those who want to be floored by some early strategy insights.

I want to start the discussion with warmonger starts vs. peaceful starts but feel free to send us down a rabbit trail.

Additionally some questions to add to this.

If you're planning a peaceful victory, what would cause you to wipe out your nearest rival? In a warmonger victory, when would you consider letting a nearby rival live?

Feel free to ask additional questions here as well.

My goal: To compile the strategy threads that we seem to generate as a matter of course in our CIV discussions; to make the access of information easier for people who visit Apolyton; and to improve as a CIV player while helping others improve as well.

If there is a thread that is beneficial (Vel's thread is already posted here) post the link. I will update the top thread with the info and link to specific posts in our discussion if necessary.

Finally, for the sake of discussion, please say the difficulty level you normally play as well as situations where a given strategy was successful so that the strategy can get appropriate scrutiny.

[Blaupanzer]

If you identify that you and one rival are alone on an extensive set of land, e.g., an island/continent or land with easily blocked singular access, then even if the long term plan is peaceful building, I would be inclined to overwhelm the rival quickly. Settlement subsequent to that is at your own pace, just me and the barbs.

In warmonger mode, I tend to concentrate on the nearby psychos early. Thus my nearest neighbor might be the Dutch or Persians, and I would let them go for awhile to go after the Aztecs or Zulu. The psychos build big armies so must be approached with care. The first time in has to be a capitol capture at least.

I play on Prince, raging hordes, no vassals, aggressive AI, no diplomatic victory, standard or large maps, epic speed, usually fractal, choose my leader but different one each time, random AI, low sea level, temperate climate. I have won warmonger (especially with Rome) and builder (with Darius/Persia as the best).

[dojoboy]

If you're planning a peaceful victory, what would cause you to wipe out your nearest rival? In a warmonger victory, when would you consider letting a nearby rival live?

I'm a definitely a hybrid player, with a preference toward the peaceful-builder type. However, when I war it's usually quite efficient.

In a peaceful game, I'd wipe out a nearby rival in order to gain the threshold of cities for the Forbidden Palace. That is if I was unable to reach it on my own. In a warmonger victory, I can't imagine why a nearby rival would be allowed to live.

[rah]

Regardless of builder/warmonger mode if Monty is your closest neighbor, he must be eliminated, and the earlier the better.

[Metaliturtle]

In a warmonger victory, I can't imagine why a nearby rival would be allowed to live.

Would you ever consider it to have a tech trading partner? (perhaps early war to gain domination, then research deep in the tree and let them pick up the piddly lil techs that you would miss)

[duke o' york]

Or just start demanding them as tribute as long as you're much stronger than them. Is it possible to make an AI civ change to your religion and/or civics? I keep getting demands but can never seem to make them back.

[DirtyMartini]

This is slightly off topic, but I had a very interesting thing happen last night.

I was playing a Monarch, continents, epic game as Brennus. I shared a landmass with Shaka. No other contacts. He planted a city pretty close to my borders. It was overwhelmed by my minimal culture and lost control of several of its first ring tiles. Out of the blue, Shaka appears on the diplo screen saying something along the lines of "We offer you this as tribute for your greatness" -- city of Kwaduza. I have never, ever seen that before. The city was kinda swamped by my culture but only because it had zero of its own -- all I had was a monument. I'm sure I was slightly behind him in power. Anyone ever seen this? I turned him down because the city was poorly placed and I planned on razing it later.

[Blaupanzer]

One game out of a few hundred in BTS I had Elizabeth offer me a city in similar circumstances. It was well-placed for resources(beaver, silver, marble) but not much for food. I took it. She had jumped in there to block me, then got in a long war so that my culture was drowning it.

[Theben]

I play Monarch level, fractal or continents, large/huge, epic, raging barbs, agg AI, and change leader personality or whatever it's called. 90% of the time I play the Native Americans... I've tried playing other civs but I don't enjoy myself as much, and finally I decided "it's SP so I'm gonna play how and who I want." So there.

3 things to keep in mind about the NA:

1) Their starting techs. Agriculture and fishing both allow you to boost your food production as soon as you can spit out a fishing boat or worker. Even more than other civs you MUST beeline Bronze Working for this reason and the following two...

2) NA capital is, more often than not, surrounded by forests. Once you have BW, chop away for more settlers and for-

3) Dog Soldiers. They don't need copper and unmodified are stronger than any other early melee unit, except Praetorians which they are even with. Excellent barb defenders and en mass they will take out a couple of close AI civs for you. Try to hit enemy civs before they get slavery to minimize losses. The good part is that you'll have an army so fast you can hit civs before they get slavery. Only the Inca, and maybe Persians, can get out an attack force quicker. Really once you've researched BW and you've adopted Slavery you empire has everything it needs to get rolling.

Even better if you play below Monarch, as at Prince> enemy capitals start out defended by warriors which Dog soldiers annihilate. Once I destroyed 2 civs on Prince with only 2 Dog Soldiers.

[Metaliturtle]

Thanks for the tips Theben, I will have to try a 'Theben dogpile' How does the strategy work on levels above Monarch?

[Theben]

Unfortunately I have no info on that, as I've only played Emperor once. I suppose it depends on when the AI gets slavery on average... it might be better to send out roving gangs of 2-3 dogs to pick off workers and fortify outside nearby AI capitals (in one stack of course). In this case you'd use the speed of making the army to keep them from settling a 2nd city and you should be able to pin 2-4 AI civs this way. Then expand until you are comfortable letting them go and/or continue the beeline thru to IW and after securing your borders from barbs, etc. go kill them one by one with swords. Of course this is all speculation.

On Epic, Monarch I can usually get 1-2 workers, a 2nd city, and 6-8 dogs by turn 70. If I micromanaged a bit more (more chopping) I'd probably do better.

[Theben]

That's 6-8 dogs plus defenders, btw.

[fani]

that is?
2 archers?
or more?

[Theben]

2-3 dog soldiers.

[Arrian]

If you identify that you and one rival are alone on an extensive set of land, e.g., an island/continent or land with easily blocked singular access, then even if the long term plan is peaceful building, I would be inclined to overwhelm the rival quickly. Settlement subsequent to that is at your own pace, just me and the barbs.

Depending on the resource distribution and who the neighbor is, that might be a mistake. Settlers are expensive as hell. Plus, depending on the distance, that early rush could do bad things to your economy (I guess you could raze, but... I can rarely bring myself to do that).

If you can prevent the neighbor from acquiring metals, you should probably allow them to expand for a while, and prepare to hit them just as they are getting close to finishing their expansion phase. This way, they will build you a bunch of cities - cities that will hopefully be lightly defended by an archer or two. Obviously, if you're up against a protective civ, or a civ that has an annoying resourceless unit, or a civ that will easily acquire copper/iron, killing them quickly may be better. It also depends on what your civ has... if you've got a powerful early rush unit, well, hell. Maybe you should use it. If you have a civ that takes a while to build up, maybe you should let that happen, try to nab a tech edge (early construction, or beeline for machinery), and then crush your still-expanding neighbor.

-Arrian