Nuclear First Strike - Bad Idea?

[Blaupanzer]

In theory, the AI would not know your specific numbers and locations. However they would know if you had any. In earlier discussions, several players mentioned moving their ICBMs to forts two tiles away from their cities to avoid having them taken out. I have not had a nuke war in BTS, so cannot speak to any uncanny AI targeting.

[rah]

I have never had the AI nuke me.
I have never nuked the AI, even though I'd like to just to see the graphic.
My games usually don't make it to nukes.

[LeonDeV]

I have never nuked the AI, even though I'd like to just to see the graphic.

You're not missing much. It's not that bad but the effects of them afterward aren't worth it.

I love nukes and start launching as soon as I get them (even though I shouldn't). I've wondered if the whole world gets affected by Global Warming as much as the launcher? Cause it seems like I'm ALWAYS being affected by GW, and I'm never told if the AI is too. I tend to launch them on other continents (as a declaration of war, so to speak).

[sorinache]

You're not missing much. It's not that bad but the effects of them afterward aren't worth it.

I love nukes and start launching as soon as I get them (even though I shouldn't). I've wondered if the whole world gets affected by Global Warming as much as the launcher? Cause it seems like I'm ALWAYS being affected by GW, and I'm never told if the AI is too. I tend to launch them on other continents (as a declaration of war, so to speak).

I beg to disagree. I only used nukes once, in my previous game - tactical nukes, for that matter, not ICBMs, and I can say I got a kick. The graphics are great, IMO (that nuclear mushroom cloud is awesome). The effect is extremely satisfying, the drawbacks are totally manageable.

I was invaded by a huge ethiopian stack : about 60 units, at a point where I only had about 40 up-to-speed units myself (thus not counting old infantry used as city defense in inland cities). Two tactical nukes on top of that stack and there was NOTHING left. Needless to say, I let out a relieved "ouphhhhh". An area equivalent to a city fat cross was razed (no improvements left standing) and contaminated by fallout. But as it was late in the game, I had lots of idle workers. Thus in a couple of turns everything was cleaned and rebuilt, you wouldn't have guessed a nuclear strike had taken place there. Next I used tactical nukes offensively against a german city where Frederick had concentrated his defenses. After about 40 of his units where wiped out, he became a much softer target. This being a war zone, the clean up took a little longer but not that much longer.

So in my experience tactical nukes can be great fun.

[Sarco]

I have never used a nuke in civ4. I've played a game where the AI used a whole lot of them on an opponent though (and then he won a diplo victory throught the UN, which I had very stupidly built cough cough). I might have built some nukes in that game but I'm not sure.

Thanks for giving me an incentive to play a bit again

Also - interesting side-discussion. I'll stay out of it except to remind you that

1- it has been used only twice since after that the major powers all could be expected to retaliate. What we really fear (or rather feared before the collapse of the USSR) is not just the effects of a nuclear strike, but the effects of a nuclear total war.

2- Eisenhower gets far too little credit for showing enough guts to avoid the very possible nuclear war when the USA still had the initiative. Hadn't he stood up to Macarthur and his pals we might have had a very different world today.

[Hauptman]

Once you start using nukes, you tend to miss them when you cant.

When a russian stack of 50 cannons 65 grenadiers and 70 cavalry step into your territory, it takes an awful lot of self control to not enter the world builder and add a couple takies.

The ai's will or wont use them based on whether they have them, not whether anyone else has broken the "nuke seal". So if ya gottem, use em. Bare in mind however, the -1 "you nuked our friend" and -3 "you nuked us" per nuke adds up fast, so relations may never be repaired.

[Hauptman]

(double post, sorry)

[Theben]

I don't think I've ever played a game when the Manhattan Project was even built.

[joncnunn]

My just completed game was the first one I've been in that someone built it; in this case the Mayan AI.

I built 4 ICBMs in response (after the Internet gave me Fission) but never used them. They were just there to ensure the AI wouldn't nuke me.

I don't think I've ever played a game when the Manhattan Project was even built.

[Hauptman]

The AIs put very little priority into it. I usually have to build it myself in every game. Ive even chosen not to build it and the AIs avoid it as well.

Ive seen the AI actually build it maybe twice in 100s of games...

[sorinache]

The AIs put very little priority into it. I usually have to build it myself in every game. Ive even chosen not to build it and the AIs avoid it as well.

Ive seen the AI actually build it maybe twice in 100s of games...

Increase the difficulty level. I only finished 3 Emperor games in BtS. Manhattan project was always very low priority for me (I've only built it once in Civ IV vanilla).

Yet in all three games it got built by the AI. In one game almost everybody had nukes but nobody appeared to use them. In the second, they were used by several players including myself. In the third, the "no nuclear proliferation" UN resolution came 2 or 3 turns after Man Proj was built and I've seen no nuke built or used (just as well, since I didn't even have uranium in that game)

[Illuminatus]

I've never seen it built at Monarch level (or, naturally, lower).

[Hauptman]

Increase the difficulty level. I only finished 3 Emperor games in BtS. Manhattan project was always very low priority for me (I've only built it once in Civ IV vanilla).

Yet in all three games it got built by the AI. In one game almost everybody had nukes but nobody appeared to use them. In the second, they were used by several players including myself. In the third, the "no nuclear proliferation" UN resolution came 2 or 3 turns after Man Proj was built and I've seen no nuke built or used (just as well, since I didn't even have uranium in that game)

I play on emporer / aggresive AI. So yeh i pretty much build it every game that lasts that long. Well, because I love nukes. I'm nuke happy!~

And without fail, the last turn before a spaceship lands I will declare war (often on EVERYONE) just to make sure i get to use them... as global warming is no longer an issue, I found a way off that rock!~

[Hauptman]

So Pretty...

[James Lofton]

Is it pretty much a given that someone will nuke you once you were the first to use nukes, or would the AI have done it anyway? Or do they just care about the "friends" thing - I mean would they care if younuke someone they have bad relation with anyway?

In my experiences, it all depends on how well your own civilization is thriving. I have had several incidents like you describe where the whole world pretty much gets its revenge and wipes me off the map. However, one scenario I played I was literally a global superpower and was virtually untouchable. A thriving economy, a MASSIVE military, and several vassals. I literally could have got on my knees and begged for someone to antagonize or nuke me and it wouldn't have happened.

While that scenario is my all time favorite(to this point), it got quite boring because the countries that were not my vassals wouldn't really do any 'saber rattling' or deal with me in any way, and if they did, it was simply a trade of fish for corn or something of that nature.

Not sure about others thoughts on this, but there comes a point where you literally become "too big for your britches" and it effects the overall aspects of the game.

To the original question, no I don't think its bad to have a "first use" policy. Yeah it antagonizes the other civs, but it lets them know in a crystal clear fashion that you will not hesitate to let the genie out of the bottle. The use of nukes is also a major deterrent for future wars because the civ knows it will be taking a radiation bath the moment it declares war on you.