Ok, so I'm dead - where's the fun ?

[sorinache]

finished yesterday ! ouph !

Finished the game yesterday evening, by winning the space race. All done and said, it WAS a lot of fun. Total playing time about 23h. Finished around 1984 with a score of about 18500 (Augustus Caesar).

Comparing BtS to Civ IV vanilla - I like the "Great General" (Warlord) addition and the new units in the modern / industrial age. The corporations are interesting although I feel they are quite unbalancing - I clearly could not have won but for the luck of founding Mining Inc which provided my cities with much needed hammers. Sid Sushi seems far too powerful : why on earth, in addition to food, it also adds so much culture ? I should understand it is a tribute to McDonalds + Coca Cola spreading american "culture" ?

I definitely don't like the espionnage part (said that already) - it muddles something that, I thought, was done elegantly in Civ vanilla. I understand it offers interesting alternatives in multiplayer, but still ...

[Unimatrix11]

Well, actually, many people complained about the vanilla espionage-system, back in the day. I guess it was one major reason why it recieved a complete overhaul in the expansions. And rightly so, i think. But i believe you can disable it in the advanced setup, cant you?

[sorinache]

Well, actually, many people complained about the vanilla espionage-system, back in the day. I guess it was one major reason why it recieved a complete overhaul in the expansions. And rightly so, i think. But i believe you can disable it in the advanced setup, cant you?

Yes, I've done that in a new game I started using Wolfshanze mod. I got the Austrians and plan to play very agressively. Haven't checked yet but I suspect I'll need the Solver patch to see everybody's graph in the Info screen

[Asmodeous]

It sounds like a Holy War. (I realize this is likely already said. . .) If you had no buddhists at all in your empire and the Apostolic Palace was built by Buddhists, it's very likely that when she wardecc'd you, she got a Palace vote and put up a "Declare War on YOU!" vote, and it passed. This forces everyone in the AP to wardec you.

Me.

[sorinache]

It sounds like a Holy War. (I realize this is likely already said. . .) If you had no buddhists at all in your empire and the Apostolic Palace was built by Buddhists, it's very likely that when she wardecc'd you, she got a Palace vote and put up a "Declare War on YOU!" vote, and it passed. This forces everyone in the AP to wardec you.

Me.

Devious b*tch ! That's all I can say about this Isabella !
BtW, she seems to regularly play a very strong hand - in the wolfshanze game I just started as the austrians she's on my landmass (fortunately at the other end of it) and she's speeding like crazy in techs, religions, wonders, just about everything. I feel it's going to be painful again

In the case of a holy war, when can the victim reasonably hope to be able to change the mood of his agressors ? I mean, it looks like a serious game balance glitch - basically, a player can strongarm almost everybody to join his war ...

[Blaupanzer]

Turn off diplomatic victory. That eliminates the AP (and the UN). Thus no holy war or other such nonsense. Also avoids a glitch permitting a very unreasonable surprise victory.

[#07]

I don't think the corporations are unbalancing or give a major advantage. Good for the space race yes, but I'll take communism over a corporation anyday. I think the corps might be good for a builder with a smallish empire but with a large empire the costs are too great. The last game I played not one corporation was founded and it still ended circa 1950, I think everyone must have been commy.

[Theben]

Devious b*tch ! That's all I can say about this Isabella !
BtW, she seems to regularly play a very strong hand - in the wolfshanze game I just started as the austrians she's on my landmass (fortunately at the other end of it) and she's speeding like crazy in techs, religions, wonders, just about everything. I feel it's going to be painful again

Izzy's Achilles heel is she will be weak early game, espec if she gets an early religion. I can almost always do a successful rush against her b/c she gets slavery late.

[sorinache]

Izzy's Achilles heel is she will be weak early game, espec if she gets an early religion. I can almost always do a successful rush against her b/c she gets slavery late.

I believe she was too far away to try to rush her before bronze working. Besides, it's not my style, I do not enjoy rushes. Anyway, the austrians (me) are pretty desperately lost on tech, so I've just built a serious army of spadassins, axemen, spearmen, archers and rams and am teraing through arabian territory - Saladin has lots of gold (spotted 4 hills with gold in his territory already), if I manage to conquer him before he gets civil service and macemen I might have a chance. The problem with my army is that it's expensive. I can barely run 20% tech (about 15 beakers per turn), which is puny - I'm not going anywhere with 15 beakers a turn ...

[Asmodeous]

Devious b*tch ! That's all I can say about this Isabella !
BtW, she seems to regularly play a very strong hand - in the wolfshanze game I just started as the austrians she's on my landmass (fortunately at the other end of it) and she's speeding like crazy in techs, religions, wonders, just about everything. I feel it's going to be painful again

In the case of a holy war, when can the victim reasonably hope to be able to change the mood of his agressors ? I mean, it looks like a serious game balance glitch - basically, a player can strongarm almost everybody to join his war ...

Two ways you can avoid it:

1. Take over a city that has or get them to send you buddhists. If you have a single buddhist in your empire, they can't get the holy war vote against you.

2. Don't let them get the AP.

Now, as for ending it, the people in the holy war all get the normal at least 10t of "REFUSES TO TALK!!" once that ends most of the ones who liked you otherwise will end their war against you with some bribery, and then they will go back to fairly good standings because they'll lose the -"a whole lot" for "This war spoils our relationship!!" So that'll be fine there. If you can snag at least one buddhist city then you won't have to worry about a second holy war.

Also, it's not that unbalancing because you can do it to the AI, as well, and also if you can get a single one of their religion in your borders you have nothing to be concerned about because they won't be able to pull it on you.

The problem is they can call you into holy wars against other AI, but that's usually less of a problem because that's the one AI versus everyone, so you can usually take advantage of it, grab some land, and then sue for peace as soon as they'll take to you and take them for a technological and monetary ride, because they'll be wanting to get out of war with as many people as possible, and if you're the first one to offer they will give up the farm.

Me.

[joncnunn]

Also, if the AP forces you into a war with someone that's nowhere near you, you can use the phoney war tactic while waiting for them to talk.

[Asmodeous]

Also, if the AP forces you into a war with someone that's nowhere near you, you can use the phoney war tactic while waiting for them to talk.

"Phoney war tactic"? I am not familiar with this. Please explain.

Me.

[Jaybe]

"Phoney war tactic"? I am not familiar with this. Please explain.

Phoney War: The period of World War II between Poland's surrender in September 1939 and the invasion of France in May 1940 (or perhaps the invasion of Norway the previous month).

A war of very little or no activity.

[Asmodeous]

And here I was expecting something related specifically to Civ and not the German reference. . .

Me.

[joncnunn]

In the civ context it's doing exactly what the Germans on the western front did until Spring of 1940.