Ok, so I'm dead - where's the fun ?

[sorinache]

let's not miss the point

I actually take little issue with Isabelle attacking me (though it's still surprising, as I explained : I 'm not meancing, I'm far away, I'm friendly). I do have some problems accepting that the following turn 7 other civs (Justinian, Ragnar, Shaka, Willem, Hatchepsout, Wong, Bismark) declare war on me, including Shaka, Hatchepsout and Willem which all three consider Isabella "worst ennemy" and have countless deals with me.

Reloaded an older save (1832) - had a string of negative events that did not happen first time around (spies destroying a custom house despite my 2 counter-spies in the city, mining accident and influenza epidemic) but somehow managed to only have Isabelle and Ragnar (her minion) declaring war on me this time. I'm not sure whether I can stand up to her cause she's really producing like mad, but in 1972 I took one of her (smaller) cities and generally hold my own (although I usually loose the naval battles and hence am close to losing at sea, which is not good on archipelago ...)

[ZEE]

Civ can be a ruthless game and the AI will take no pity in smashing you into nothingness with little to no chance of mercy if it can get away with it. Isabella, IIRC, is also one of the most aggressive civs in the game and will gladly pay other civs to attack anybody for almost nothing in return. Esp at Emperor level where the AI is KNOWN to cheat... hell the highest i even go is Monarch, Prince by default, Noble when im trying a new map type or MOD.

Watch the Powar graphs, if you are near the bottom but high score... that means you are fat and weak. Civ4 BtS is, (unfortunately?) a wargame that CAN be won by peace, not the other way around.

most ppl play noble, large maps, few civs and a slow pace when they want a builder game.

[ruff_hi]

you can also test if the AI is in war preparation mode. Contact the leader, enter the trade section and scroll down to "Declare on ...". Hover over the 'red' leaders and she will give her reason for declining ...

- nothing to gain
- don't like you enough
- they are too strong
- we have enough on our hands (WHEOOH)

This last one means that either the leader is in a war or is preparing for a war. If they are not in a war, then check your power v them and get ready for they are probably coming for you.

[#07]

I do have some problems accepting that the following turn 7 other civs (Justinian, Ragnar, Shaka, Willem, Hatchepsout, Wong, Bismark) declare war on me, including Shaka, Hatchepsout and Willem which all three consider Isabella "worst ennemy" and have countless deals with me.

I know its not nice when everyone including your so called friends are calling for your blood. But really, given the option every one of those civs would probably declare war on you for a free technology - which may well be what Isabella is offering. You might join in yourself if you got the call.

I know I've enlisted AI's before to take on a powerful enemy by giving them some miliary techs. Also note that if the civ is a vassal, then they have no choice but to join in their master's war.

[wodan11]

Actually sorinache it looks to me as though you clearly fell victim to an AP war (Apostolic Palace).

The owner of the AP can declare a holy war, which has a very good chance of getting ALL nations who have at least one city of that religion, to declare war on an infidel (defined as a nation which has NO cities of that religion).

This gets back to the spreading religion question. You were a bit too successful in spreading your own religions to your cities, which prevented the AP religion from coming in. That's not necessarily bad, because when you aren't an infidel you also qualify to vote in the AP, which can force you to do things you don't want (unless you vote NO WAY! in which case you suffer a lot of unhappiness in your cities which have the AP religion).

So it's pros and cons. Bottom line in your situation I would have gone out of my way to gift the AP owner (probably Isabella? Go to the F8 screen and look at wonders to see) a resource or something. Whatever you have extra. Anything to keep her semi happy. And, don't refuse her requests.

You're kinda screwed somewhat because Isabella is notoriously unfriendly to people who aren't of her religion.

[sorinache]

Actually sorinache it looks to me as though you clearly fell victim to an AP war (Apostolic Palace).

The owner of the AP can declare a holy war, which has a very good chance of getting ALL nations who have at least one city of that religion, to declare war on an infidel (defined as a nation which has NO cities of that religion).

This gets back to the spreading religion question. You were a bit too successful in spreading your own religions to your cities, which prevented the AP religion from coming in. That's not necessarily bad, because when you aren't an infidel you also qualify to vote in the AP, which can force you to do things you don't want (unless you vote NO WAY! in which case you suffer a lot of unhappiness in your cities which have the AP religion).

So it's pros and cons. Bottom line in your situation I would have gone out of my way to gift the AP owner (probably Isabella? Go to the F8 screen and look at wonders to see) a resource or something. Whatever you have extra. Anything to keep her semi happy. And, don't refuse her requests.

You're kinda screwed somewhat because Isabella is notoriously unfriendly to people who aren't of her religion.

Very interesting hypothesis, might very well be true, I appear to be, with my neighbors the Carthaginians, the only Civs with no Buddhist city ...

I also noted what somebody else said above, BtS is a wargame that can be won peacefully as a builder game, not the other way around.

Also noted "don't refuse her demands" - I remember pooh-pooh-ing her when she asked me to adopt theocracy ...

Hmmm, so here's what I plan to do - reload an older save, change to theocracy (instead of pacifism) and bureacracy (instead of free speech) and concentrate on building a serious army, since this is how the game asks to be played. Does not come naturally to me but hey, it takes what it takes ! Too bad I only have 3 cities that are war-worthy. Given enough time, though, I should be able to overcome her first fleet and maybe conquer a second city, so that she might be tempted to return to the negotiating table and sign a peace treaty (conquering one of her cities obviously was not enough to calm her ...)

Somebody told me to look at the power graph : in Civ IV I used to see everybody on it. In BtS I only see my graph (which is pretty useless) and that of my immediate neighbours, the Carthaginians. What should I do to see the graphs of other Civs ? I mention I play archipelago - on my main landmass I only border Hannibal, but on minor islands I have common borders with Wang and even a small border with Isabella (until she declares and I conquer this small sity of hers, pop 2)

[sorinache]

Actually sorinache it looks to me as though you clearly fell victim to an AP war (Apostolic Palace).

The owner of the AP can declare a holy war, which has a very good chance of getting ALL nations who have at least one city of that religion, to declare war on an infidel (defined as a nation which has NO cities of that religion).

This gets back to the spreading religion question. You were a bit too successful in spreading your own religions to your cities, which prevented the AP religion from coming in. That's not necessarily bad, because when you aren't an infidel you also qualify to vote in the AP, which can force you to do things you don't want (unless you vote NO WAY! in which case you suffer a lot of unhappiness in your cities which have the AP religion).

So it's pros and cons. Bottom line in your situation I would have gone out of my way to gift the AP owner (probably Isabella? Go to the F8 screen and look at wonders to see) a resource or something. Whatever you have extra. Anything to keep her semi happy. And, don't refuse her requests.

You're kinda screwed somewhat because Isabella is notoriously unfriendly to people who aren't of her religion.

Very interesting hypothesis, might very well be true, I appear to be, with my neighbors the Carthaginians, the only Civs with no Buddhist city ...

I also noted what somebody else said above, BtS is a wargame that can be won peacefully as a builder game, not the other way around.

Also noted "don't refuse her demands" - I remember pooh-pooh-ing her when she asked me to adopt theocracy ...

Hmmm, so here's what I plan to do - reload an older save, change to theocracy (instead of pacifism) and bureacracy (instead of free speech) and concentrate on building a serious army, since this is how the game asks to be played. Does not come naturally to me but hey, it takes what it takes ! Too bad I only have 3 cities that are war-worthy. Given enough time, though, I should be able to overcome her first fleet and maybe conquer a second city, so that she might be tempted to return to the negotiating table and sign a peace treaty (conquering one of her cities obviously was not enough to calm her ...)

Somebody told me to look at the power graph : in Civ IV I used to see everybody on it. In BtS I only see my graph (which is pretty useless) and that of my immediate neighbours, the Carthaginians. What should I do to see the graphs of other Civs ? I mention I play archipelago - on my main landmass I only border Hannibal, but on minor islands I have common borders with Wang and even a small border with Isabella (until she declares and I conquer this small sity of hers, pop 2)

[ruff_hi]

Somebody told me to look at the power graph : in Civ IV I used to see everybody on it. In BtS I only see my graph (which is pretty useless) and that of my immediate neighbours, the Carthaginians. What should I do to see the graphs of other Civs ? I mention I play archipelago - on my main landmass I only border Hannibal, but on minor islands I have common borders with Wang and even a small border with Isabella (until she declares and I conquer this small sity of hers, pop 2)

One of the major items added to BtS was spies and spying. You need to accumulate a certain number of spy points against a civ before you can see their graphs / demographics. Check Ctrl-E to see how you are allocating your spy points and what levels you need to reach to see the demographics, the tech they are researching, etc.

[Lord Avalon]

Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

From Epitoma Rei Militaris.

[wodan11]

BTW I said F8, it's F9 (to see the wonder screen which tells you which civ has built a specific wonder such as the AP)

Very apt quote, Lord Avalon.

sorinache, the power graph I think *is* F8, then on the upper left you can change a drop down between things like gold, power, culture, etc. Power is basically a formula which says how strong their military is. The AI definitely uses that to decide when to wage war. (Except an AP war, which I'm beginning to suspect is the case here.) If you're low on the Power graph compared to an AI, they will be more likely to DOW you. *BUT* that is only going to be 1 or 2 AIs at most, not ALL of them as you experienced here.

You should be able to see the Power graph of ANYBODY you have contact with (regardless of Espionage, and please ignore the Ferengi in the gorilla suit in the corner).

Honestly, to wage war in CIV, you can ignore her fleet totally. Once you are able to defeat her land army, THEN you can focus on fighting on sea.

Sea power in CIV can hurt because they can kill your sea health resources, and they can blockade you (which costs commerce, which is a "hidden" cost). However, the real penalty is if you lose a city. Losing a city hurts bad because it immediately blows up all the buildings that produce culture, which can be a huge amount of lost hammers even if you retake the city later. Clearly, losing the city also loses you the commerce and hammers that city is producing for your empire.

So, protect the land at all costs. Even if you have totally give up the sea.

good luck.

[Sarco]

In an archipelago map you often have to control the seas to properly defend the land. Unless you mean to have a counter-SoD-stack in every island which might be a little bit draining on your economy.

I find the biggest change in CivIV gameplay compared to the earlier versions to be that CivIV is much more about units. You have to keep building units all the time and plan for potential wars or the AI will come at you one way or the other. Some AIs will come at you either way

[Chemical Ollie]

LOL, someone starting at Emperor and complaining about difficulty ... NOOB!

Try to master cheiftain first, idiot!

Civ 4 is not Civ 2.

I used to rule Civ 2 on Deity, but on Civ 4, I have a tough time to beat Noble. I can beat Prince on small maps, but the larger the map, the tougher the game.

[Sarco]

LOL, someone starting at Emperor and complaining about difficulty ... NOOB!

Try to master cheiftain first, idiot!

Civ 4 is not Civ 2.

I used to rule Civ 2 on Deity, but on Civ 4, I have a tough time to beat Noble. I can beat Prince on small maps, but the larger the map, the tougher the game.

Had you actually read OP's first post, you might have noticed the text quoted below.

Then you might not have ended up giving the impression of an arrogant 12-year old.

Made my way up winning a game on noble, prince, monarch and finally emperor. These games were all a lot of fun, to the point where I chose to replay my "emperor" game almost from the beginning, to try another strategy.

Decided to go for BtS then and so started my game as Elizabeth of the English on "emperor" level as well,

[Theben]

Yes, I don't think he needs to trot all the way back down to noble. Prince or Monarch level would be just fine to work out his strategies.

[joncnunn]

One thing to mention, the turn before the actual turn she declared the war would be too late to give her the gift (as mentioned before the decision had already been made.)

And "requests for help" are actually demands.
One group you can always safely refuse are everyone who's a vassal to anyone.