So what do I need to un-grey Her.Epic / West Point ?

[sorinache]

I'm usually playing very peaceful games - striving to stay nice to everyone (except the weakest AI civs). I keep having this problem (Civ IV vanilla and now BtS) with not being able to build Heroic Epic and (more often) West Point - the manual says I need a barracks and a 4 XP military unit - I do have both yet the Heroic Epic button stays greyed out. Sometimes (I wasn't able to ascertain what are the conditions) the Heroic Epic button lightens and I can build the wonder, but then I'm almost never allowed to build West Point.
I read somewhere that I need to wage war first ? What is this ? War against whom ? Barbarians are ok ? What exactly qualifies as "war" ? Do I need to just defeat a unit or take a city ? Maybe raze a city ? Do I need horses or anything else ? How to "un-grey" the West Point wonder ?

Thanks

And yes, I know that only 2 Nat. Won. are allowed per city, that is not the problem

[Krill]

They require level 4/5 units, not 4 XP units (so HE requires a unit with 10XP, and I think WP requires a unit with 17XP, or if you are charismatic 8XP and 13 XP; best way to get them is to add a warlord to a unit).

[wodan11]

It's not "4 XP", it's 4th level. The progression (for most leaders) is 2, 5, 10, 17, 26 (For Charismatic leaders, it's; 2, 4, 8, 13...)

So you need a unit with 17 XP.

And, Barbarians only allow each unit to get up to 10XP. After that, the unit doesn't get XP though it can keep killing barbs.

So, you can fight barbs until you have a couple of units of 10XP each, and after that you have to fight one of the other countries.

[wodan11]

best way to get them is to add a warlord to a unit).

"Best" is debatable.

Sorinache, you get a warlord when you get a certain amount of XP across ALL your units. So, you can get XP here and there, and when you get to 90, you get a warlord. You can then put the warlord and one of your units ALONE in a tile, and attach the warlord to that unit. Pick the unit you have with the most XP. The warlord will add a bunch of XP to that unit, giving it enough to get a couple of extra promotions. Once you do that, the unit will be level 4 or 5, and you'll meet the requirements.

Alternately, if you have just a couple of strong units, you can keep fighting with mostly those units, and you'll get one of them to level 4 or 5 that way.

Basically, spread it out and get 90 XP on all your units (you'll probably have to fight 85 -100 total battles), or use just a couple and get one of them to 17XP (you'll probably have to fight 30-40 total battles).

[sorinache]

Ah ! That clarifies it

4th level is not 4 XP ! Good, that clarifies it !
I've just noticed battling barbs would not take me over 10 XP, too bad
Especially since I loathe war, I'm more of a "builder" kind of player.
Getting to 90 XP - would having, say, 30 just-minted units with 3 XP each (baracks / stables) do toward getting a warlord ? Is the warlord in BtS the same as a "great general" ?

[Ming]

Getting to 90 XP - would having, say, 30 just-minted units with 3 XP each (baracks / stables) do toward getting a warlord ?

No... xp gained on building doesn't count toward the total. Only XP earned in combat against another civ (not barbarians)

Is the warlord in BtS the same as a "great general" ?

Yes...

[wodan11]

Getting to 90 XP - would having, say, 30 just-minted units with 3 XP each (baracks / stables) do toward getting a warlord ? Is the warlord in BtS the same as a "great general" ?

Yes and yes.

[rah]

They require level 4/5 units, not 4 XP units (so HE requires a unit with 10XP, and I think WP requires a unit with 17XP, or if you are charismatic 8XP and 13 XP; best way to get them is to add a warlord to a unit).

For BTS, I believe the WP requirement was upped to the next level so adding a GG to a green unit is not enough anymore. (at least on the most recent patch)

[trev]

I never use a GG as a warlord, it is easy to get to Level 4 exp with an attacking unit like a city raider swordsmen or maceman, by using catapults to reduce city defences and defenders with bombardment and collateral damage. Increasingly the build time for the West Point seems in my opinion not to make it worthwhile unless one has plenty of spare hammers not needed for other stuff. Heroic Epic should be built as soon as possible in a hammer heavy city though.

[rah]

I usually use the first GG as a warlord just to creat one triple healer since that's the only way to unlock that promotion. Nice to have him along with your SOD to keep it moving instead of sitting healing.

[wodan11]

I usually use the first GG as a warlord just to creat one triple healer since that's the only way to unlock that promotion. Nice to have him along with your SOD to keep it moving instead of sitting healing.

Heal III and Woodsman III

[sorinache]

Heal III and Woodsman III

errr ... sorry for my ignorance, what good is woodsman III ? (never chosen this upgrade path myself)

[Ming]

A woodsman III unit heals all units in the same square at +15%. In combination with a heal III promotion, you get a super super healer

[rah]

To do enough attacks to get both means I only used him for the 99.9ers which can take a considerable amount of time, or he died many attacks ago.

[Ming]

I managed it once when I was aggresive (start with 10%), used a Great General to get him heal 1,2,3, plus woodsman 1, and then 6 more experience gets you 26, and then only 11 more to 37 so you can get woodsman 3.

17 experience points is not all that hard to get, as long as you are real careful using the unit.