This is why I think that the Apostolic Palace sucks....!

[Robert]

Ok, it's not as if immortal isn't hard enough already....
First 2 civs declared war on me (+1 vassal)
Then another civ declare waron me.

But then the apostolic palace jumped in.......
A fine game totally ruined by the apostolic palace

It should've been all civs of state religion x vs all civs of state religion y in the first place.
It makes no sence that the Mali, who share MY state religion declare war on me because they have one or two apostolic palace religion cities....

stupid game

[Ming]

I turn the "diplomatic victory" condition off.

Between the strange crap that happens with the Apostolic Palace and the UN, I have no time for that kind of foolishness. They have both destroyed fun games with stuff that just wouldn't make sense in reality.

[Robert]

Hmm, thanks for the hint, that's what I'll do next game.
Does that remove all those annoying UN resolution as well, that remove all civic choises in the end game?

[Ming]

With that option, there is no diplo victory possible, and you can't build the Un or AP

We always turn that option off for our MP games.
IMHO, it just screws up a good game

[Robert]

I also always disable the cultural win option.
First because it sucks to lose from a civ who won a cultural victory. It feels totally stupid. Especially if you're more advanced and about to win domination or space ship victory.

2nd because on immortal level it's about impossible to keep your border cities borders up against the wave of culture coming from the AI cities.

I dislike it to disable the AP
The concept is awesome, I just will never understand why they didn't make it a religion vs religion thing and why civs that hold 1 city of the AP state religion are being sucked into a war.

Why not have the AP only for civs who have the AP religion as their state religion, and give the option to launch a war against all civs of state religion x. That's cool!

And of course it should've been a building for all religions, so that every religion can have it's shrine and 'AP'. Then religious wars become really intersting, and adopting free religion becomes really interesting.

Has such a thing already been modded?
Imagine MP diplo games with such an AP!!!!
one can dream....

[Krill]

The reason they didn't make it a religion v religion thing is because that would be incredibly unPC. It would make alot more sense in game, but isn't going to happen for RL reasons jsut as Hitler won't ever be in the game.

[Robert]

"Declare war against the heathen X" is PC?
The entire AP concept is unPC, I don't think that there's a difference in unPCishness betwen all members of religion x go to war against 1 civ that doesn't have that religion, or all civs that don't have that state religion.

Maybe this game should have a: "Disable all PC" option.
That makes he basic game PC (which is all the reviewers look at anyway) but make the game fun for the gamers

[joncnunn]

One alternative is to kiss the a$$ of whoever builds the AP from the time they built it.

The second is build the AP yourself; admitly on Immortal level I'm not sure how easy that is but on Monarch if you make that tech a priority it's fairly easy to get.

[Iamjohn]

Really you either have to make sure you have no cities with the religion of the AP's or just build it yourself.

It really is too bad, they were trying to make it do more then it did in civ3, but firaxis really seems to have trouble doing it right....

[Theben]

Good luck with that war.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Lord Procyon
Really you either have to make sure you have no cities with the religion of the AP's or just build it yourself.

It really is too bad, they were trying to make it do more then it did in civ3, but firaxis really seems to have trouble doing it right....

I made sure I had no cities of the AP's religion.....
that's what brought me into this all-vs-me war

[Ming]

Yeah... before I turned that victory condition off, my strategy was to raze the city it was built in! Same with the UN

[wodan11]

Another solution is simply to switch to the AP religion.

[Ming]

Originally posted by wodan11
Another solution is simply to switch to the AP religion.

What fun is that...

[Blaupanzer]

Converting gives all the $ due to the founding city shrine to someone other than yourself. Not a valuable alternative. I just turn diplo victory off.

I also turn off vassals for reasons discussed in another thread. With aggressive AI and raging barbs on, these combined actions mean I have a reasonable chance of picking some of my own wars without precipitating worldwiide disaster.