Hardest Civ to play

[rah]

Hmm the Ottoman
UU UB are two of the better ones.

And while Mehmed II traits are better than Suleiman's, I never mind getting either in an MP game.

[HalfLotus]

Originally posted by Theben
Protective shows it's value early on when fighting off raging barbs and later in the gunpowder era, when such units can operate effectively both on offense and defense.

I don't play with raging barbs, but the gunpowder bonus is something I didn't realize. Protective for the win!

[pedrojedi]

Darius' combination Organized/Financial seemed overkill, but I actually lost one game due to overbuilding, I guess. The second one I sent the save (on anoither thread), and was much more succesful.

[Felch]

Anybody know of mods that have a post-WWII leader for the Japanese? Less warfare oriented, perhaps.

Who would you use for that, anyways? Junichiro Koizumi?

As far as difficult civs to play, I tend to shy away from any that have late UBs. The Dutch are the only ones with a later UB that I really like, and that only on island maps.

[Blaupanzer]

I noted Industrious is a good trait, especially due to the cheap forge and, to some degree, a choice of wonders, but it is a dangerous trat also as I tend to go for at least one too many wonders while my army slips to fifth or sixth on the power chart. This not only invites an attack, but has spelled my doom more than once as the attack will be successful.

[pedrojedi]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
I noted Industrious is a good trait, especially due to the cheap forge and, to some degree, a choice of wonders, but it is a dangerous trat also as I tend to go for at least one too many wonders while my army slips to fifth or sixth on the power chart. This not only invites an attack, but has spelled my doom more than once as the attack will be successful.

I know the feeling... That cold and quiet desperation as that trumpet screams and you see the large stack with lots of up-to-date units, while you just have some and a lot of axemen, archers, warriors...

:desire:

[HalfLotus]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
I noted Industrious is a good trait, especially due to the cheap forge and, to some degree, a choice of wonders, but it is a dangerous trat also as I tend to go for at least one too many wonders while my army slips to fifth or sixth on the power chart. This not only invites an attack, but has spelled my doom more than once as the attack will be successful.

Don't go blaming good traits for your peacenik failures!

[Seedle]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Two of the American leaders are alright, even though their unit/UB are the latest in the game but I have had no luck with Lincoln.

Lincoln is an absolute beast. Well, maybe not a beast, but he's really good. Philosophical lets you Great Person your way to the modern age, whether it be through Scientist spam, Golden Ages, or Great Engineered wonders. Once in the modern age, Charismatic Navy SEALS get to Drill4 quickly, and Drill4 + free march promotion = pain for your enemies.

[joncnunn]

I really like Frederick; Phio + Organized makes a very good builder combo. (With Stone or Marble) As it turned out one of those two was within the CR of my capital and I was able to secure the other before the middle ages. When I ran out of key wonders I switched over to peroidic waves of conquering, building in between times.

Now I'd basically already won the game by the time either my UU or UB was avaiable (by then I had vassalized my entire starting landmass) but I did manage to get several of the UBs built. I won a religious victory right before I was about to expire the AP with bribes to my vassals to switch to Free Religion removing themselves from consideration; without it I'd have won a cultural victory. (This was also before the patch came down that AIs in Theologly civic no longer accept gifted missonaries which was the only way I could give one of those civs my religion in a city.)

Phio is a builder traight, but it's mostly a build a wonder in your best production city (usually your capital for most of the game). Without Stone or Marble the whole traight suffers. (Other traights have map dependencies as well.)

Protective's role for builders is the cheap walls & castles to make up for your smaller army while building. (Especally if combined with Stone) Also the better Archery units help in that regards.

Imperalism's builder aspect is the cheaper settlers (more of a breath build than a deep build); so much so you can easily over expand if your not careful. But if you keep your growth in check that's so many more turns you can devote to building rather than settler building.

I happen to be playing Charlemenage right now; currently in first place in the score but neck in neck with another civ on another landmass. Now my FP and several UBs were significantly delayed by an unexpected war I just won. Several settlers are now going out to catch up with the city founding that was also placed on hold. And some of the troops are now going to need to capture some barb cities that formed as well. (I started on the landmass with the fewest civs).

So far I've never played Sitting Bull any where near a full game.

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Neither German leader is particularly impressive either.

However, imperial, philosophical, and protective seem to contribute very little to my style. Several civs have the latter attributes in combination, so are harder for me.

Two others with the "bad" trait combinations are not as hard due to the civ. These are Charlemagne and Sitting Bull with buildings and units are a big help, despite the leader's traits.

[joncnunn]

Also don't forget the Crossbow which is also greatly helped by Protective. (Granted it's still more of an anti melee unit than a conquer city unit)

Originally posted by Theben
Protective shows it's value early on when fighting off raging barbs and later in the gunpowder era, when such units can operate effectively both on offense and defense.

[joncnunn]

My own rule of thumb playing Industrious are:

1. Build forges like crazy.

2. Unless the wonder is REALLY cheap (OR a no resource wonder); ask yourself if I didn't have Industrious traight would I be considering this wonder given my resources and what's known about technology? If Not, don't build the wonder.

3. Devote at least one city to military building.

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
I noted Industrious is a good trait, especially due to the cheap forge and, to some degree, a choice of wonders, but it is a dangerous trat also as I tend to go for at least one too many wonders while my army slips to fifth or sixth on the power chart. This not only invites an attack, but has spelled my doom more than once as the attack will be successful.

[joncnunn]

Also two extra happiness in every city early on is nothing to sneeze at; (one from turn 1, the other with Monuments)

Originally posted by Seedle


Lincoln is an absolute beast. Well, maybe not a beast, but he's really good. Philosophical lets you Great Person your way to the modern age, whether it be through Scientist spam, Golden Ages, or Great Engineered wonders. Once in the modern age, Charismatic Navy SEALS get to Drill4 quickly, and Drill4 + free march promotion = pain for your enemies.

[Willem]

Originally posted by HalfLotus


I don't play with raging barbs, but the gunpowder bonus is something I didn't realize. Protective for the win!

Even without Raging Barbs it helps. In one game when I was playing Charlie, I had a Barb Archer march straight through my territory and head off to my nearest neighbour, since he was an easier target. It didn't bother with my cities at all.

[Theben]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Also don't forget the Crossbow which is also greatly helped by Protective. (Granted it's still more of an anti melee unit than a conquer city unit)

You don't have to tell me, I play Sitting Bull way too often. But Drill IV crossbows combined with catapults/trebs are great at both attacking cities and defending against counter-assault (horsemen/knights are their counter since they ignore 1st strikes). And Chinese crossbows cause collateral damage so they are 10x worse.

[Blaupanzer]

The original thought here was which civs have you found hardest to play. I offered my candidates. I would love to hear about other civs players have found difficult. Possibly you MPers could say which draws are head-slappers where you go, "Damn." For SPers which have you tried that made you say, "Whoa, that didn't work."