Advice needed: Buying a CivIV Computer

[Targonis]

I've seen situations where the heat sink just wasn't making proper contact with the CPU, which will cause this sort of heat issue. Of course, there CAN be bad processors that run hotter than they should, but in some cases, it's just a case of the fan not being mounted properly with good thermal paste.

Originally posted by Baldyr
Man, I don't know what to think. The vendor got back to me today and it turns out it was the processor that wasn't working right. It was "peaking during CPU intense games". The guy tells my that is working as it should now, but here's the part that scares me:

They don't have a replacement AMD 6000+ in stock – only 5000+ - so they have ordered one in. This makes me think that they over-clocked a 5000+ from the start, and since that isn't working out with my needs, they'll just have to pay up and get me the stuff they actually sold me. They did however deny any over-clocking issues when I remarked. Nor do they know exactly how it effected the GPU (which was shutting down and peaking in intervals during gameplay).

I don't know if I trust these people anymore... At any rate I won't be having my new PC back any earlier than tomorrow evening. So much for me spending vacation-time playing . (Come Monday I'm gonna work for 12 days straight and will be pretty exhausted when I get home after work.) I'll just have to apply for some more vacation time, if I can afford to not work.

On a happier note, though, I was reading up on here on Apolyton yesterday. So I stumbled upon my old Fantastic Worlds scenario Trakoria: the Rise of the Clavian Empire, which was added to the Scenario League page about a year ago (without my knowledge). Check it out:

http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Trakoria

My old webpage is also still online (to my amazement):

http://come.to/trakoria

I actually installed on my old laptop and downloaded my scenario, so now I actually can play Civ. I also realized that the 10th anniversary of the scenario is approaching so I thought I'd write something about it on the SL forum.

[Baldyr]

Another update on my situation. So I just got back the PC and appears to work fine with the highest graphics settings (I'm not sure if those settings actually do much in terms of over all performance). Let me just say that the enhanced BTS animations are a beautiful thing to behold after you've resorted to playing for a couple of days. Well, it's beautiful when it works, anyway.

The vendor had a new story for today: It turned out it wasn't the CPU (Athlon 6000+) which was acting up, it was in fact the Motherboard which didn't work well with the processor. I'm not sure if I have the original processor or the one they supposedly got delivered today right now, but they did changed the board on the PC. (I don't know if I should update BIOS on that one too or not.)

Well, I mentioned the over-clocking theory floating around here and the guy didn't even flinch. Apparently that would just show up in the system statistics in that case, I dunno. I did however remark why they didn't notice the issue with the CPU/MB then testing the system, and he admitted they must have screwed up. (I wonder if they even did any testing.) The problem wasn't very obvious in any case and they've heard no complaints about that very configuration before. It only seems to show up with , so I suggested they test all computers with this remarkable piece of software to find possible hidden problems.

Too bad I'm into my scenario right now and have actually started writing the strategy guide I was gonna write 10 years ago. Well, at least I have a good PC to do my word processing on, I guess...

The remaining three days of my vacation will be dedicated to tying up loose ends here and there (like fix a faulty brake on the car), do a full load of laundry and last but not least install and configure my new PC so that I can work on it once the daily grind begins. I suppose I can manage to fit a game of into my schedule, just to test everything and maybe even find possible issues (like the game crashing frequently). Hopefully the game will run optimally when I'm done with testing this weekend.

Finally I would like to give some praise to this awesome community and to say my thanks for all the support and help, and not least your patience with me. It has been frustrating three weeks (especially the last six days) and it really helped to be able to vent these frustrations. Maybe it will turn out that the latest version of really isn't all that bad, now that I've managed to install it proper (which was by no means an easy task) on a, hopefully, fully functioning computer.

So thank you all and we'll be seing more of eachother on the boards in the future!

[TriMiro]

Good to hear you got your computer finally.

For the BIOS update, most people go under the philosophy that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". One should update the BIOS only if something is not working properly or if there is a useful new feature available. If everything is working OK, don't touch it.

AMD has several programs that you can freely download an install that would give you information about your CPU. CPU-Info and CPU-power monitor are couple that I have used. You can use them to see the current clock speed of the CPU and compare it to the default speed of Athlon 6000 (3.0Ghz). If it is more than about 30Mgz off, it is overstocked.

BTW, be careful with civ, I had to write a thesis once and civ III almost cost me my degree. Don't get hooked on this stuff, it is dangerous.

[Unimatrix11]

just to avoid misunderstandings: in the above post, it should read ´3.0 Ghz´ (i guess - well surely not 30) and ´30 Mhz´. On the bios i concur: Never touch a running donkey...

[Willem]

Originally posted by TriMiro
AMD has several programs that you can freely download an install that would give you information about your CPU.

There's also a utility called Dual-Core Optimizer you should get. Some programs seem to have a problem with AMD's dual-core processors, GalCiv2 is one of them. That utility fixes any issues they may have with them. I forget the technical reason why those programs have problems, I just know that fixes the issues.

[snoopy369]

I don't believe I had any dual core related problem (I have a dual-core AMD as well) ... but that's not to say it's not possible.

[Solver]

Congratulations on fixing your problem. So a hardware fault, eh. Gotta hate those. I had a defective RAM stick a while ago, diagnosing (and eventually replacing it) was frustrating.

[TriMiro]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
just to avoid misunderstandings: in the above post, it should read ´3.0 Ghz´ (i guess - well surely not 30) and ´30 Mhz´. On the bios i concur: Never touch a running donkey...

A man can dream, a man can dream, then someone would rudely awaken him

[Willem]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I don't believe I had any dual core related problem (I have a dual-core AMD as well) ... but that's not to say it's not possible.

I've never had one either but I've read that some people playing GalCiv2 were having animations that were going way too fast. It had something to do with the timing in the CPU which the Optimizer was supposed to correct. I understand Neverwinter Nights 2 also had some issues with AMD dual-cores which were fixed by that utility as well.

Here's the link to the utility anyway:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_13118,00.html

And here's what AMD has to say about what it does:

AMD Dual-Core Optimizer - The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer can help improve some PC gaming video performance by compensating for those applications that bypass the Windows API for timing by directly using the RDTSC (Read Time Stamp Counter) instruction. Applications that rely on RDTSC do not benefit from the logic in the operating system to properly account for the affect of power management mechanisms on the rate at which a processor core's Time Stamp Counter (TSC) is incremented. The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer helps to correct the resulting video performance effects or other incorrect timing effects that these applications may experience on dual-core processor systems, by periodically adjusting the core time-stamp-counters, so that they are synchronized.

[TriMiro]

AMD Dual-Core Optimizer was another thing that I installed. Not that I had any problem, AMD just gave it as a better driver and I installed it.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Baldyr
It only seems to show up with , so I suggested they test all computers with this remarkable piece of software to find possible hidden problems.

Super: "Jones! What d'you think you're doing?!?"

Jones: "Testing the system... I have to test the system of each computer I build for at least an hour or two, before I know it's stable."

[Baldyr]

Yeah, the tech that fixed it said he played a hundred some turns, in order to see that there weren't any more issues... I think it's the sort of establishment where the employees just hang out after work, you know.

As for my own progress, I've managed to disable all sorts of services and stuff on my hardware profile, and am busy playing too se how the machine acts. The system uses less than 1GB memory (out of 2GB) and utilizes a 700MB page file (out of 3070MB) when playing. Then I rebooted memory usage went down about 100MB and the page file was 50MB lighter. It also saved me 5 sec. worth of waiting time between turns, so I guess I'll be doing that o lot. (I've set up a profile that automatically loads in my latest save on startup, without auto-starting any other junk like anti-virus or unused hardware. If I'm gonna gain seconds in-between turns I might as well save a minute or so rebooting, right?)

The CPUs are working at a constant 50% capacity (+/- 1-2%) whatever I do with the game. It seems a bit wasteful if it means that the PC is only using half of its processing power to resolve moves, trade routes, diplomacy and whatnot between turns. (I tried only playing with one processor and it still equaled down to 50% CPU usage since one processor was working at about 95% all the time while the other one managed services and whatnot at about 5%.) Is there a way to increase CPU work-rate so that the system uses at least 70-80% of available resources?

I'll have to keep an eye on GPU temperature also.

[TriMiro]

I am not sure about the 50%. Logically it should be the case that if a program use only 50% of CPU, the only one core is in use. That has been the case for me with Matlab and some similar programs.

I would think that 50% usage for Civ IV means that only one core is being use, while the other core is idle. However, IAFIK Solver mentioned that Civ does use of multiple cores, so I am not sure. Both Windows and Linux show only 50% usage.

I have seen Matlab specifically alternate cores, meaning that one core was used then the other then back, but never more than one core at a time. It might be feature of Matlab (doubt it) or in general and I don't think this qualifies as taking advantage of multiple cores.

In windows the AMD CPU power tool lets you see the load for each core, I don't think there is any similar tool for Linux.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Baldyr
The system uses less than 1GB memory (out of 2GB) and utilizes a 700MB page file (out of 3070MB) when playing.

Give it time. As you get later into the game there'll be more RAM usage. I've seen it go over 1 gig, though I'm not sure about the page file. I wasn't looking at that at the time.

(I've set up a profile that automatically loads in my latest save on startup, without auto-starting any other junk like anti-virus or unused hardware. If I'm gonna gain seconds in-between turns I might as well save a minute or so rebooting, right?)

You're worrying too much. You have more than enough processing power that you don't need to bother shutting things off in order to play the game. That's one of the advantages of a dual core, while the game plays on one, the other processes use the other. And no, Civ does not use dual-cores it's been optimized only for one.

I'll have to keep an eye on GPU temperature also.

You have an 8800GT right? If so you again don't have to worry about it. That card can easily handle anything Civ throws at it.

[snoopy369]

IIRC, Civ4 does not multithread much, so it is indeed just using 100% of one core...

The page file is two different things at once:

1. Page file is allocated in large chunks, in order to make sure Windows has enough when it needs it. So it might only 'use' 200mb of page file, but allocate 700mb.

2. Windows will use page files when it doesn't need to - it's a feature that (theoretically) speeds up windows. Whether it does or not, couldn't tell you, but if you turn off the page file entirely you get a slower response time, even if you're well under your current available memory allocated.