Advice needed: Buying a CivIV Computer

[Baldyr]

So I'm gonna buy a new computer that will mostly be used for work and Web, but since my vacation is coming up I finally have some free time to play CivIV: BTS. I prefer to play with AS MANY Civs as possible and on AS LARGE maps as possible - without any practical limitations or technical hickups. (As I understand it there is a limit of 18 or something Civs one can have in play at the same time, but I intend to use all 34 some in the game if possible. I realize it will require some modding work but that's a later problem.)

My questions are therefore:

How much processing power does one need? (I'm guessing a faster CPU will make the time between game turns shorter. What is the weakest Processor around on the market today, and will it be sufficient for gameplay with 30+ Civs?)

How much Memory does one need? (I'm guessing that more Memory will allow for larger maps without the game having to use Virtual Memory on my HD. What amount of memory will be enough to play the largest maps imaginable?)

What sort of Graphics Card does one need? (What is the cheapest around these days and will it do if I turn off all the graphics options, animations and what not?)

Furthermore, are there any CPUs or cards that are known to cause problems with the latest version of the game, which I therefore should avoid? (Are there any combinations of components that are known to not work well together?)

And lastly, would there be any advantage of buying Vista in regard to CivIV specifically? Are there any disadvantages with staying with XP?

NOTE that I don't intend to play any other game than CivIV on the new computer (I really don't have the time for that) and that I'm not interested in paying for more PC than I actually need. (I'm assuming that a computer that can handle CivIV also can handle my other computing needs.)

Thank you for your insightful replies!

[wodan11]

You should get 4Mb RAM and something like a GeForce 9600 (BFG / Nvidia). Everything else doesn't matter so much.

Some people have trouble getting it to work on Vista but if you look around the forums you'll find some tips.

[TriMiro]

Originally posted by wodan11
You should get 4Mb RAM and something like a GeForce 9600 (BFG / Nvidia). Everything else doesn't matter so much.

Some people have trouble getting it to work on Vista but if you look around the forums you'll find some tips.

I am playing Civ IV on 2GB RAM and GeForce 7300GT. Works fine. I can play RFC mod (huge map and MANY civs).

1GB RAM would be enough to play small to medium maps, but it will kind of slow for large maps (the system would have to swap memory).

The GPU is not that important, the game runs on GeForce 5500. On my particular one I have experianced some problems with the drivers. There seems to be memory leak of some sort and the game starts to slow down after about 20 - 40 min of playing. Solution is to save and reload the game again. So I guess you should consider something other than 7300, maybe something out of the 8000 series. I have no idea how ATI cards work with CIv.

The CPU is probably the most important thing. So the more you put in it the better. I have 2.4Ghz Athlon X2 and towards the end of RFC I may need to wait as much as 20 - 30 seconds per turn. Then again RFC is about as large as a game can be so I am not complaining.

XP vs. Vista, I see no problem with using XP, the game was designed for XP initially. If you use VIsta keep in mind that this thing would eat most of your RAM, so if you are using VIsta get more than 2GB (if possible). In general I don't see any point of moving from XP to Vista just to play Civ.

[Will9]

Originally posted by wodan11
4Mb RAM

I have 3GB RAM and and a Geforce 8300GS on Vista. I haven't any problems with Civ since I got this computer.

[Baldyr]

Here's an example of a PC what I could afford:

nVidia GeForce 9600GT 512MB G92 GPU
INTEL Core2Duo E8200 6MB Cache
ASUS Motherboard with intel G31 chipset
2GB DDR-2 Memory

So I'm guessing I could trade in some CPU power for more memory then? Or would that just prevent me from having all those 30+ Civs in-game? Would something like 3 or 4GB be sufficient for HUGE maps?

Do I get away with a cheaper Graphics Card if I turn off graphic options and non-essential animations? Does the game's graphics engine need a lot of memory in order to be able scroll and zoom and stuff without any glitches?

I really need to cut costs here and maximize my money's worth. I'm not gonna have time to play games all year, so over-sizing it really isn't a smart move. But when I do have the time to spear, I intend to do some serious gaming and the PC better be up to the task!

[Willem]

Originally posted by Baldyr
Here's an example of a PC what I could afford:

nVidia GeForce 9600GT 512MB G92 GPU
INTEL Core2Duo E8200 6MB Cache
ASUS Motherboard with intel G31 chipset
2GB DDR-2 Memory

So I'm guessing I could trade in some CPU power for more memory then? Or would that just prevent me from having all those 30+ Civs in-game? Would something like 3 or 4GB be sufficient for HUGE maps?

Do I get away with a cheaper Graphics Card if I turn off graphic options and non-essential animations? Does the game's graphics engine need a lot of memory in order to be able scroll and zoom and stuff without any glitches?

I really need to cut costs here and maximize my money's worth. I'm not gonna have time to play games all year, so over-sizing it really isn't a smart move. But when I do have the time to spear, I intend to do some serious gaming and the PC better be up to the task!

You could easily get away with a somewhat cheaper video card rather than skimp on your processor. Civ 4 is not all that graphic intensive so you don't realluy need anything high powered. I used to play Huge maps just fine with an ATI X800 and with a GeForce 7950GT. If the only game you're going to be playing is Civ, you could probably get by with just a Nvidia 8600GT, which would save you a few dollars you could put into a bit more RAM instead. I'd recommend that you have at least 3 gig if you're running XP and 4 with Vista.

[Solver]

Civ4 isn't graphically intensive... any graphics card you can buy today will do. The GeForce6 series works perfectly, and you'll be getting something newer anyway.

The most important thing is memory. The requirements aren't big until you start playing the custom mods and such. Mods like RFC or others that have 40 civs in game require heaps of memory. 2GB are needed for that, 3 or 4 will be very comfortable.

If you're running Windows XP, don't buy 4GB of memory, it can't properly use all that memory anyway. If you're only going to play Civ4, I would even recommend a GS card over a GT one. Say, 8600GS is cheaper than 8600GT, the GS cards are a bit slower but that distinction would only matter in more graphically intensive games.

[wodan11]

The disparity of advice on here is interesting.

Anyway, I've given my two cents. Given that I literally burned out a GeForce 7000 series (don't remember which) due to my CIV playing and all the rendering. When I had to go get a new one, I did a lot of research, and I ended up with the 9600. I did probably buy a little bit more of a card than was strictly necessary, but to me it was worth it to make sure I didn't have problems again.

I also didn't want to run into issues in 2009 or whatever when Starcraft is re-released, Diablo III, or Civ 5. That in general I think is good advice: don't always buy "what you can get by with". You should consider the future. If another $40 will give you an extra 2 years of usability, it may well be worth it.

Memory also is an interesting topic. It amazes me that some people are scoffing that you might want more than 2gb. CIV is proven to leak memory. Unless you want to restart every time before you start playing, restart every time you finish, and also don't play more than 2 hours before restarting, then 3-4gb is a very good idea. Given how cheap memory is, it's well worth it even for your other needs, and for future usability in 2009 and beyond.

Wodan

[Baldyr]

Wodan: Your advice is greatly appreciated, as is the other replies since I really wouldn't be able to make heads or tails about this stuff myself. You did however state that CivIV "leaks memory" – what exactly do you mean by that and why would this be even worse if I had more memory (people suggested 3-4GB over 2GB?

I do of course see your point about getting a computer that last at least a couple of years, but in my case... I really only need to be able to play CivIV for the foreseeable future, and since it's already a pretty old game I'm thinking I could get away cheaply. (Other games I occasionally play are about as dated as Civ2, so I'm not worrying about system requirements for next year's games.)

[Baldyr]

Solver: So 3GB would be all I need then with XP, got it.

What does GS/GT stand for and what exactly would one get for those extra dollarinos?

And isn't the GPU essentially the Graphic Card itself? (What purpose would a Graphics Card without a GPU chip serve?)

[Solver]

I'm not sure what GS and GT stand for, it's just standard for their models. GT is a bit better than GS. If we're talking 8600 cards, the difference is that GT has better memory clock (1400 MHz vs. 800 on the GS) and it has 22 GB/s maximum bandwidth, unlike the GS which has 13 GB/s. But they have the same core clock and fill rate statistics, so the cards are quite similar - if you're playing something like Civ4, the advantages of GT won't help you any. Basically, it doesn't tax the video card enough to make a difference there.

And yeah, a video card is essentially the same as GPU. It isn't the same thing, but the distinction is a technical thing and doesn't matter to you as a user. If you really want to know: the GPU is the processor which does the graphical calculations, but the video (graphics) card consists of a GPU and some other stuff, the most important of which is video memory.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Baldyr
Wodan: Your advice is greatly appreciated, as is the other replies since I really wouldn't be able to make heads or tails about this stuff myself.

Yeah, no worries.

You did however state that CivIV "leaks memory" – what exactly do you mean by that and why would this be even worse if I had more memory (people suggested 3-4GB over 2GB?

Well, your OS will use a good bit, plus whatever utilities etc you have installed. Microsoft and Adobe products, as well, are notorious for not releasing memory when they quit especially if you run multiple windows. So if you run them and don't restart before you run CIV then this will compound your memory needs.

Anyway as for CIV I can state from direct observation that the longer I run, if I check memory allocation, there is a steady degradation. This also has a direct observable impact with an increased incidence of crashes the longer I have it running.

Furthermore, when I upgraded from 1gb to 4gb I saw a marked decrease in crash incidence.

I would suggest what is probably happening is a steady leak compounded by increased memory needs as you get into the later stages of a game (with more units and buildings existant in the game). If this is the case, then it follows that having a bigger reservoir would directly mean a longer period of time before the system becomes unstable.

I do of course see your point about getting a computer that last at least a couple of years, but in my case... I really only need to be able to play CivIV for the foreseeable future, and since it's already a pretty old game I'm thinking I could get away cheaply. (Other games I occasionally play are about as dated as Civ2, so I'm not worrying about system requirements for next year's games.)

Okay then I'd say a GeForce 8000 series and 2gb. Processor... I still think that's not an issue. Just get the best value you can for the money... don't buy the absolute oldest, but get maybe 2-3 generations back from the bleeding edge. Doesn't have to be a multiple processor system for sure.

good luck!

[Solver]

I beg to differ, Wodan. Everybody should be buying multicore systems for now. I'm not saying go for an expensive quad processor, but multicore systems are so much more efficient than single-core systems - buying an older Core2Duo is an affordable option that will provide good performance and make the PC last.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Solver
I beg to differ, Wodan. Everybody should be buying multicore systems for now. I'm not saying go for an expensive quad processor, but multicore systems are so much more efficient than single-core systems - buying an older Core2Duo is an affordable option that will provide good performance and make the PC last.

He said he wasn't worried about that.

Ultimately it comes down to how much for the multicore, I suppose.

[Baldyr]

Solver: I see... Is there a list of compatible Graphics Cards that I could show my to vendor? Since I probably would wanna get the cheapest model available.

This leads to my next question: What amount of Video Memory would be sufficient for (I'm talking HUGE maps)?

Does it make any sense to purchase anything else than a nVidia/Intel combo? Are there any issues with ATI Cards or AMD Chips regarding ?