Advice needed: Buying a CivIV Computer

[Baldyr]

Williem: What's a RAM Card?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Baldyr
Here's one (not from the same guy) in the same price range than the other two above (no HD included though):

- AMD Athlon x2 6000+ 3.0Ghz
- Gigabyte GA-M57SLI-S4 nForce 570 ATX
- LeadTek GF 8600GTS 256MB PCIe
- 3GB DDR2 800Mhz

This one can't be very dated, can it?

Good processor, crappy video card. You shouldn't go with less than a 8800 in that series, the ones below that aren't very good. I have that same processor and I'm quite happy with it. I just looked at AMD's product line today and it's currently top-of-the-line for their dual-core processors. For some reason they pulled the 6400+. I've had no problems playing Civ on it, it runs like a charm.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Baldyr
Williem: What's a RAM Card?

Well it's the gizmo that puts the RAM into your machine. Each one is a small card about 1" tall and about 3" long that slips into special slots in your motherboard. Sometimes it happens that you end up with one that has a manufacturing flaw and either doesn't work at all or not properly, leaving your memory corrupted. I ended up with one a little while ago and as soon as I put it in, my computer refused to boot up at all. If you took all of them to the store you deal with, they could test them for you.

[wodan11]

You know, Baldyr, I think your earlier thought is the best one. Take the first machine back to the guys you bought it from and say "make it work." Hand them your CIV disk. Shouldn't take more than an hour for them to run a complete diagnostic and check all the hardware and verify the software settings.

No offense, but your last comment shows you're over your head a little bit. At least on the hardware side, though you seem comfortable with the software. Something as "minor" as mismatching your RAM can result in the symptoms you've been experiencing.

[snoopy369]

Umm, he might well just be too knowledgeable as well

"RAM Card" is not terminology I've ever heard used. RAM module is the proper term

They don't need to be matched anymore, in any event, that's so 1998...

[wodan11]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Umm, he might well just be too knowledgeable as well

"RAM Card" is not terminology I've ever heard used. RAM module is the proper term

They don't need to be matched anymore, in any event, that's so 1998...

Well the largest PC manufacturer in the world says you're wrong. "Installation in matched pairs of modules is required, please order quantity two."

At least, I think Dell is currently the largest. Moot point, their specs give ample indication that this could cause problems.

[Baldyr]

Williem: Ah, you mean the actual Memory Card Thingys. We call them something else where I'm from...

wodan11: I'm of course returning the machine to the vendor, but if they can fix it or not is anyone's best guess... Otherwise I'll take my money back or cannibalize the 'puter and sell the left-overs. I'm sick of waiting for other people to deliver, since my vacation is about to end anyway. Then I just need a machine to do my blogging and such, but that machine should also be able to run (for when I do have the time – I might just apply for more vacation time later this year, if I get the game to run on a PC of my own).

And for the record: I don't have any real understanding about computers at all. My philosophy is that I don't even wanna know or learn anything, and I try hard to forget what I have learnt this far. My personal feeling is than every Personal Computer should come with a Personal Technician who can make stuff actually work. Instead, I'm the personal computer technician to my fiancée – so you know she's really in trouble when the ****e hits the CPU fan!

Seriously though, this is a learning experience and I have learnt so much over the last few days (and weeks). Not that I'm interested in this stuff, at all, but because I really, really need to play this friggin game! Too bad it's a game for people with degrees in Computer Science... (I might be able to get mine once I get to work, don't you think? )

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Baldyr
Too bad it's a game for people with degrees in Computer Science...

Sorry you had trouble. Really.

Part of the trouble with custom configurations is that they're so many of them. No manufacturer can cover all the bases. So, it's hard to tell what's causing your difficulties.

Getting an off-the-shelf machine is one solution. Since you're not a computer geek, that might be a good option. Otherwise, I would either send it back or buddy up with a geek There are not a whole lot of other options. Trying to figure it out yourself probably will just end up with you frustrated.

[Baldyr]

Yeah, I know PCs aren't game consoles and so forth, but it seems some games cause more trouble for more people than others. shouldn't be allowed to be sold at all, there should be some law preventing them from releasing stuff like it (and Windows Vista, apparently).

I thought that I bought a off-the-shelf machine since I opted for the configuration I found on the website, instead of the custom configuration I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. My reasoning was that the delivery would be swifter and the configuration tried and tested, but apparently I was mistaken... Instead I ended up waiting 10 some days for the ATI graphics adapter to arrive so that the vendor would be able to deliver. The very same adapter that I switched in for the Albatron card earlier today...

Why can I run a FPS without the GPU getting the hickups? It makes no sense to me at least...

ps: Thanks a lot for the tip on the Civilization4.ini file by the way Wodan11. It was a good call and helped me to do some debugging by shutting stuff off.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by wodan11

Well the largest PC manufacturer in the world says you're wrong. "Installation in matched pairs of modules is required, please order quantity two."

At least, I think Dell is currently the largest. Moot point, their specs give ample indication that this could cause problems.

They may choose to require the purchase of matched pairs (to gain the efficiency of dual channel memory ... or to boost their sales), but it has not been a requirement since around 1998 (since SDRAM replaced EDORAM as the primary memory module for PC system memory). You gain some performance optimization from having matched pairs, but it's certainly not required (you can buy just a single module with no problem, or two non-identical modules).

EDO ... now THAT was a pain in the tush.

[snoopy369]

Baldyr - by the way, I think there's definitely something wrong with your actual machine. It's far beyond the specs of Civ4 (and far beyond my current machine's specs, i'm due fora new one soonish). I don't know what it is, without fiddling with your computer, but it's definitely not Civ4's specs that cause the problem.
(That said, Civ4 is far more GPU-intensive than almost any FPS... quantity matters as much or more than quality, to the GPU.)

[wodan11]

Originally posted by snoopy369
They may choose to require the purchase of matched pairs (to gain the efficiency of dual channel memory ... or to boost their sales), but it has not been a requirement since around 1998 (since SDRAM replaced EDORAM as the primary memory module for PC system memory). You gain some performance optimization from having matched pairs, but it's certainly not required (you can buy just a single module with no problem, or two non-identical modules).

You just proved my point, by use of words "require" and "optimize". He can RUN civ, just not very well. Thus his system isn't very optimized and suffers from poor performance.

Bottom line he's trying to optimize a system without the in-depth know-how to do so. RAM mismatch is one possibility. There are a dozen other things, or more, that could be the culprit here.

[Baldyr]

Snoopy369: Exactly why/how is more GPU intense than a real 3D game? I like to think it's either because of poor design choices or because of bad programming. I'm no programmer but know a little about design. It all boils down to marketing I suppose...

As I said before, I really don't understand what 3D graphics adds to a turn based strategy game. is only superior to its predecessors as a strategy game. is, IMHO, a better product, although far from perfect. The interface is simply better suited for what the game does. 3D only distract from the game.

That said, I truly wish there were a way to turn everything 3D off and just enjoy the game for what it is. A turn based strategy game, that is. Wanting to play the game as is seems to be too much to ask for.

[Targonis]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Umm, he might well just be too knowledgeable as well

"RAM Card" is not terminology I've ever heard used. RAM module is the proper term

They don't need to be matched anymore, in any event, that's so 1998...

While you don't necessarily need to upgrade in pairs, because of the dual-channel memory controller, you can suffer some pretty serious performance penalties if you don't upgrade in pairs(because dual-channel mode may be disabled).

As for the names for memory modules, a common term is "sticks of memory". I don't know if the term DIMM applies at this point, though you may see people use it.

[TriMiro]

Baldyr, sorry to hear your troubles.

If the machine is doing what you say it is, it means something is wrong with the machine itself. Civ IV should fly on those specs. Since the video is OK, the possibilities are the CPU, RAM, Motherboard. How does the computer behave in other applications? Get another game from someone else (don't buy it) and try to see if it will run. Or to test the RAM, you could open FireFox, go to Google, search for something and the open like 50-60 pages at the same time. IE would probably crash (on any machine), but FireFox should be able to open them (in a few minutes depending on your internet speed). That is a "low brow" RAM check, there are better ones, such as tools that you can download and run.

If the computer has problems in general, go to the vendor and request either your money back and that he fixes it. I would hate to think you got stuck with a damaged machine and no refund.

(This kind of reminds me of the first time I bought a computer, and since I was building it from scratch myself I made the mistake to get incompatible RAM, took me a month to figure ant this was a very frustrating month for me, so I feel your pain.)