Trading units via the diplo screen

[Heraclitus]

Why don't we have this in civ?


The old strategy game galciv 1 had this option, as does its current sequel Galciv2.... and the galciv series allows the player to design units from scratch.



Civ has fewer units than galciv, meaning it would be easier to theach the AI the value of units.

There is a problem of where traded units wind up, but this can be solved by limiting unit trading to those civs that have open borders.

Once could argue that the unit screen would be too cluttered or that we could trick the AI into buying units in the middle of nowhere or in their enemys territory.

A simple fix for the first issue is for the diplo screen to only show units in cities (or the cities fat X) that the AI would consider trading (for those who don't know the AI dosen't accept cities too far from its empire).

A fix for the second is to group the units into categories in the same way other tradeble stuff can be "hidden" in the diplo screen. Also next to the unit name its coordinates are displayed now this may be confusing to some players, but a simple fix is for cities in the trade screen to have their coordinates displayed as well (you could then see near which city it is).

[snoopy369]

IIRC this was left out intentionally, because it was too easy to abuse the AI with this (Wasn't it in Civ3?).

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by snoopy369
IIRC this was left out intentionally, because it was too easy to abuse the AI with this (Wasn't it in Civ3?).

Yes but I am commenting on the fact that there are several ways to make it easier for the AI to deal with it.


I am also pointing out that another game has made this work well. I am also pointing out that the designers of that other game had a much harder time doing it, than someone doing it for civ would have.

[Hauptman]

I too wish it was in civ, give you a better feel of 'lend-lease' without just gifting units. Also would be nice to make some $$ off my old ironclad fleet instead of spending $$ to upgrade.

[snoopy369]

The problem with AI trading units is it's very hard to fairly value them - either you massively overvalue them (making it useless), or it's easy to take advantage of the AI. Balancing that is nigh-impossible, and not worth the effort it would take to implement and test it.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by snoopy369
... it's easy to take advantage of the AI...

For this same reason, I'm glad they got rid of 'bribing' enemy units with diplomats.

[Blaupanzer]

Not exactly the same point, but bribing barbs seems reasonable. Lots of money changed hands in the Renaissance for buying "loyalty." Maybe bribing should only work for select eras. As to trading units, I've never seen a game programmer sharp enough to prevent the players from figuring out how to exploit this, even in GalCiv.

[Yaga]

Originally posted by snoopy369
The problem with AI trading units is it's very hard to fairly value them ...

Well, the AI has ways to value techs, maps, and resources --

Heck, why can't I offer military units as resources? No, Shaka, I won't give you Iron, but for 2gp/turn I'll give you a Swordsman; or give me 100 GP and they're yours 100 turns! Return them in good condition...

In other words, leased units don't "die", but wind up back in my capitol with .01 HPs

I can think of 101 uses for such a system...

[Scooby_Doo]

IIRC it was possible in Civ 3 to trade workers but not other units, rendering it slightly pointless.

I don't buy that there's an inherent AI limitation preventing such a system. As the OP says it's in another similar game and therefore it can be done.

[Blaupanzer]

It was done in CIV II, IIRC. However as a fixed item, not for lease. The AI would take them for money and such. But players were able to take advantage. If you just want to help another civ fight off an enemy of yours, you can give units away. This helps a little with their diplomatic attitude towards you, but that system is very obscure.

[Krill]

Never in C3.

[Krill]

I'd prefer it if I could sell or buy units. Personally if I were a dev I would ask UnO about the Team Merc way of doing things in demogames and start from there.

[MoonWolf]

I would prefer to sell and buy units too. If implemented well enough, you could have different fractions support other countries like USA and Sovjet/ Russia did/ do. But it should still require some transit time as you have to day with transportation of units on the map. If not, you could easly get an instant army by buying it.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Scooby_Doo
IIRC it was possible in Civ 3 to trade workers but not other units, rendering it slightly pointless.

I don't buy that there's an inherent AI limitation preventing such a system. As the OP says it's in another similar game and therefore it can be done.

Thanks for being reasonable instead of screaming OMG it can't be done since Firaxis isn't Stardock.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
It was done in CIV II, IIRC. However as a fixed item, not for lease. The AI would take them for money and such. But players were able to take advantage. If you just want to help another civ fight off an enemy of yours, you can give units away. This helps a little with their diplomatic attitude towards you, but that system is very obscure.

I just want to bring that to the diplo screen as well. I mean civ dosen't have that many units! And the AI already has to know how to value them! So why can't we make this happen?

For the puritans out there a "no unit trading" option would be ridiculsly easy to impliment.

BTW Is it just me or are civ players one of the most conservative bunch of players on the planet. Remember all the fuss about how Civ4 would be "dumbed down" and how its new mehanics would inventiably reveal themselves to be "broken"? Well I was a lurker back then and I rember.