Fasttecher on Archipelago map

[Vampgelus]

Assuming you want to be researching futere tech II while others are researching writing (not litteraly ^^), which of these leader/civ combo would you take, knowing that you are about to play on a HUGE archipelago map ? (vote for 1 leader and 1 civ)

I voted for Darios of the Carthagian, because of what i experienced trying this one out. I was my greatest nuclear conquest victory :P

[Krill]

Dutch, simply for the Levee. Financial, obviously as well, not sure after that though. PHI could come in useful with lots of food, SPI is always good, Charismatic is a maybe, could be good depending on the land. Don;t think it really matters though tbh. I'd probably say for industrious to get the Great Lighthouse and colosus asap.

[Seedle]

I voted Huayna Capac of the Carthiginians. Financial makes coast tiles juicy, Industrious gets you Great Lighthouse, Colossus, and hopefully Temple of Artemis, and Carthiginian gets free trade route from Cothon. High commerce yield tiles + lots of good trade routes = tech.

[Vampgelus]

I'd like to remind the health problems on that kind of map... EXT may be good too. I thought about Peter, Mehmet or Bismark... in my current game the first AI is actually Pacal II of Babylon with me performing as Capac of the HRE... not a bad choice initially, since the map size is beyond huge (i play with a mod allowing bigger maps and many many civs, 20 in this game, can't take more because of RAM issues ^^). But i sucked, i didn't manage to get a single early wonder but arthemis temple... looking at the editor i noticed that roosevelt had both wonder ressources -_-

[Krill]

+1 trade route from early-mid game when you are financial and every coastal tile worked nets you +3 commerce, or + 1 hammer from every coastal tile from late-mid game when the majority of tiles don't give you hammers...

Honestly, if anything is a no brainer, this is. The Cothon is now where near as powerful as the ****. The easiest comparison is to consider spending extra turns building wealth or research in a city with a **** and see how far ahead you'd be by the end of the game compared with the cothon. I'd bet that the extra commerce from the Cothon is not as important as the hammers, as archi is a hammer poor map, not commerce poor.

[Hauptman]

El-Lizardbreath. Fin (obviose) and Philo (produces more tech AND hammers) one of my favorite leaders. Especially with a seafood start.

The cothon is a monster of a building. 8 extra commerce early enough in the game is no joke. But the dike pays off huge late game. So its a 50/50 there. BUT, archepilago maps always scream VIKING at me. City attack Marines at circa 1 anno domino, and no one stands a chance. The extra cities make up for the lost hammers of a dike or trade routes of the cothon.

Not to mention, archipilago = sea power. Having all your ships faster than anyone elses = owning the oceans. +1 move lighthouses pay off well too.

[Krill]

Aye, Vikings are definately viable (and fun, if you want to go for a conquest victory) the cothon/**** debate does come down a bit to land and what type of archi map (snakey continents favours cothon, tiny islands favours ****)

[Vampgelus]

Cothon is nice, but you may begin at a location where you need optics and astronomy to meet and commerce with people.

Vikings are definitively nice, but i wonder about the usefulness of their UB with combustion engines.

Portuguese UB is great for the FIN bonus on ocean tiles, you may take that into consideration. But it's truely not worth cothon if you are not FIN, since you would have to work as many water tiles as a trade route would give you, what seems difficult, especially on a very large map.

Elisabeth of Carthago should be a great thing in deed, but to really benefit from it you will need large citys, and on this kind of map, where you lack hammers, you will slave alot and the health cap is very low before you can get astronomy anyway.

EDIT: I just began a game with Elizabeth of the Netherlands, and take a look at what i saw :

[Theben]

Sweet.



No, really, with all that sugar, it's too sweet!

[Tuberski]

Fat kids with no teeth.

ACK!

[Vampgelus]

I placed a city on the northern sugar tile... slavery rock's :P

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Vampgelus
I placed a city on the northern sugar tile... slavery rock's :P

There's two cities there. With Colossus and G Lighthouse you want to be able to use those coastal tiles.

So what recipes are there for fish and sugar?

[Vampgelus]

Salmon filet in a caramel sauce... delicous japanese speciality (called Sake Teri).

[Supr49er]

Make rum! Oh wait, that's Colonization.

[Vampgelus]

Well, bakc to the topic, i see there have been some more votes. Evryone seems to agree about either cathago or netherlands, but many leader votes were posted without comments. Why would you take Ragnar or Hannibal, on a map were you are on your tiny island without anyone at range to invade ? Even charismatic doesn't seem to be a that good choice, since what you will need is health, much more then happyness.

It surprises me a little... there are no votes for HRE, -25% upkeep on a map with almost 90% citys on another island as your capital does bring high upkeep with it !

Portugal allows a FIN to get use of the ocean tiles without colossus, but i do understand that if you consider city sizes around 10 for the major part of the game, cothon seems more atractive.

Capac seems to be a great consensus in deed, as you will get FIN and the early wonders (if you don't suck as much as i do ^^).