Incan strategies?

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Ming
As long as you can keep your losses to 2 or 3 to one, you can still crank out enough Quecha to do the job. And I have to admit it's been a while since I've seen an AI warrior.

Put it on raging barbs and you'll see them.

By the way, the statement that the Incas are easier on the higher levels is not quite true. The Quecha Rush is but other AI factors will counterract this short term advantage you get when the AI starts with Archers/Archery.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by couerdelion
By the way, the statement that the Incas are easier on the higher levels is not quite true. The Quecha Rush is but other AI factors will counterract this short term advantage you get when the AI starts with Archers/Archery.

I'd call getting an early second, well placed city more than a short-term advantage...

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Modo44

I'd call getting an early second, well placed city more than a short-term advantage...

That’s a well-placed but slightly expensive second city

My comparison was not between getting that city or not but between the different levels. So you’ve given yourself a little boost – that city is by no means decisive – but every other AI civ has been growing. There extra bonus from the higher level will be worth more than your bonus second city.

That’s all I was trying to say.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by couerdelion
My comparison was not between getting that city or not but between the different levels. So you�ve given yourself a little boost � that city is by no means decisive � but every other AI civ has been growing. There extra bonus from the higher level will be worth more than your bonus second city.

Well, that AI bonus is there regardless of what you do. If you weren't making units, your capital would be stuck at some low population while you make that first Settler, unless you manage to get Slavery extremely early. Meaning, you might be even further behind. Besides, having a good unit pump right off the bat should matter more on higher difficulty, methinks.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Modo44

Well, that AI bonus is there regardless of what you do. If you weren't making units, your capital would be stuck at some low population while you make that first Settler, unless you manage to get Slavery extremely early. Meaning, you might be even further behind. Besides, having a good unit pump right off the bat should matter more on higher difficulty, methinks.

Not if you are playing at a lower level.

Someone help me here or is it easier if I just saying:

Playing against higher bonuses + Archers is still harder than playing against lower bonuses + Warriors

[Modo44]

Originally posted by couerdelion
Someone help me here or is it easier if I just saying:

Playing against higher bonuses + Archers is still harder than playing against lower bonuses + Warriors

Ok, I see that. And my point stands: The early gains from an easy rush can be converted into a long term advantage without much trouble, so you can't call it a short term advantage. It's effectively a game changing thing. The assumption being that the rush is really that easy to do.

[Fleme]

I'd rather take 3 capital spots than 1 capital spot and 4 average spots any day. Even with 30 distance between my cities I could still run science at 50% and with 3 really good spots with food and production resources it's not at all hard to succeed. Sure, you'll end up a bit backwards through the middle ages but if you play your cards right those 2 capitals you captured early on will make you the game, not to mention that every capital has atleast 1 really good spot to expand to in it's vicinity (atleast generally).

And yes, if someone was unclear about the Inca strategy I suggested; I have never attempted it below Monarch and have personally never seen an AI warrior for that matter. I would consider it a really valid strategy especially for continents map where you end up with 2 or 3 AI sharing the same landmass, leaving you with a continent and peace for quite a long time allowing you to get back up to speed with the AI's from the other landmasses.

[jbp26]

Fleme is spot on here. Capital spots are well worth the incurred distance expense. This is even better on continents maps where its not hard to clear your whole continent and then just expand at your leisure.

[MoonWolf]

I think my next game will be as the Incas

[couerdelion]

I wouldn’t so instinctively jump to the conclusion that one capital spot is worth two “normal” cities for several reasons.

Trade is probably the biggest since isolated cities take longer to link up and the links are harder to maintain. With smaller distances involved, your cities can quite easily be linked and, with the first one, that is two free commerce. But even for other cities, that is still +1c per city from day one.

A secondary issue here is that, without those trade links, your cities will not get your resources.

Next is defence. With more cities to defend across a larger area, you need more troops to fight off the barbarian threats. Until that is contained the immediate build up, you’ll incur more military costs and lack of copper or horses at these sites will cause problems with the barb axes start appearing. As and when you do get it, you’ll need to build up military again just for security. Oh and did I mention that you’re cities may not be linked so it may take some time before you can build these units everywhere.

Finally, it is worth pointing out that, while capital cities have a certain “bonus terrain”, they are not necessarily “super-cities”. Typical cities will have at least two resources and often my second city will have three or four. More often than not, it is when you get to cities 4-6 that you are starting to “scrape the barrel” of available terrain.

But, as with everything, it all depends and everything is relative. If you’re isolated on a continent separated by your rivals by a big jungle, then the Inca rush strategy might be a costly diversion from the other Inca strengths that you need to use in the early game. OTOH, if Isabella, Monty or Brennus is setting up shop near your borders then I'd recommend an early stab at them.

[Modo44]

Yes, all that is costly. But it's like nobody mentioned the powerful early Settler and/or unit and/or wonder pump to you. Remember that a rushed AI capital often comes with more improvements than your own cities, and can be an insane production center in the early game, when every bit counts a lot.

[couerdelion]

The only improvement that I've ever found in a rushed AI capital was religion but I mentioned this - at least tangentially, in my previous post.

Insane is an (insane) overstatement. There is nothing intrinsically better about a captured AI capital than one of your own cities - although it might work out cheap to acquire with Quecha. If anything, I find that capital city sites tend to be in more commerce-oriented sites than production-oriented ones.

That's not to say the Quecha rush is a bad thing. But I would not overplay it if the ground lies less favourably. The Incas has many useful early game strategies and the Quecha rush is just one of them.

[MoonWolf]

Started a game as the Incas yesterday. Shared a long continent (the north part of it is ice/ tundra leaving a relative narrow belt availbale for city-building) with Pacal and manage to take out his archer-defended capital with the quechas. This city had access to iron, so my quechas were soon upgraded to axemen making his holkas pretty useless as defenders for the remaining two cities The previous capital is now my wonder-ctiy as it have some food resources, iron and hills for mining

I control the western and eastern part of the continent slowly filling the remains with cities while I research like h*ll Think I'll use the Incas when I try higher levels

[LDiCesare]

I wonder how you manage to get a 50%+ success rate with a strategy that starts with '-found budism'.
How often do you manage to found buddhism in your games? For a typical Monarch game on standard map, I am never able to found buddhism if someone else starts with mysticism. Usually hinduism is more likely but not guaranteed either.

[MoonWolf]

I never head for buddism first unless I feel very buddist that day I almost always go for hinduism if I want an early religion