What are the mechanics of Espionage?

[Fistleaf]

1. Other than the effects of the security bureau, what other factors affect the success rate for missions? (Ratio of espionage points, presence of counter-spy, number of espionage-related buildings?)
2. How is the %tage discount of espionage missions determined? Is it the difference in the ratio between your total espionage points spent versus that of the target civ?
3. By placing a spy in your own city, what is the improvement in counter-espionage for that city? If I put 2 spies in the same city, do the effects stack?

[realpolitic]

It seems that the more spies I send out, the higher the probablity any given one will be caught per turn, even when the AI is not building any infrastructure to capture them. They still are a very good investment, whether you're using them to create riots (to lower city defences to 0%) in wartime or unhappiness/ poison attacks in anytime. Don't get to caught up in the math, just use them!

[joncnunn]

Note that the attacks when caught will lower your relations with the AI in question.

On defense, a second spy in the same tile is useless. However a single one in a city very highly effective at preventing damage to that city. I just place these in space ship component cities since the AI seems to prefer trying to destroy SS parts with their spies.

[rah]

Yes, realized the second spy is useless but how about the special building? Is it's protective ability additive to having a spy there?

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by rah
Yes, realized the second spy is useless but how about the special building? Is it's protective ability additive to having a spy there?

Not according to a previous report (by Blake IIRC, possibly at CFC). A single spy, OR the security whatsit; affects are not accumulative.

[rah]

Yeah, but if that's the case, why ever build it? A spy is cheaper.

[wodan11]

Two reasons: it also provides EP, and it doesn't require unit maintenance.

Wodan

[realpolitic]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Note that the attacks when caught will lower your relations with the AI in question.

Very, very well worth it.

I do keep open borders to keep relations good.

[Ekmek]

are the spy functions from Vanilla still work in BTS? It looks like they changed how it works...

[joncnunn]

In my experence, the spy is 100% effective at preventing a space part component from being destroyed.

The security whatsit was most defeintely not, I lost 3 SS parts to cities with the security whatsit (and no spy).

The point of the security whatsit (without a spy) seems limited to increased chance of exposing a spy that's in the city. And of course the increase ESP points.

Originally posted by Jaybe

Not according to a previous report (by Blake IIRC, possibly at CFC). A single spy, OR the security whatsit; affects are not accumulative.

[joncnunn]

Originally posted by E
are the spy functions from Vanilla still work in BTS? It looks like they changed how it works...

It was competely overhauled in BTS.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by joncnunn
In my experence, the spy is 100% effective at preventing a space part component from being destroyed.

The security whatsit was most defeintely not, I lost 3 SS parts to cities with the security whatsit (and no spy).

The point of the security whatsit (without a spy) seems limited to increased chance of exposing a spy that's in the city. And of course the increase ESP points.

My understanding was that my information was just from reading the code. Since that is not necessarily absolute certainty (just as anecdotal game experience isn't), perhaps I'll start building more spies.

[rah]

Hmm, I was playing last night and I thought the building didn't provide any ESP or % modifiers to it. So except for unit maint on the spy the building still looks like a dumb build.

[wodan11]

I just looked in the XML. The security building gives 8 espionage points, no % bonus, and 50 intelligence defense.

(To compare, the intelligence ageny gves 8 ep, 50%, and 0 defense. Each building allows 2 spies.)

Wodan

[rah]

Thanks for checking the XML. The in game building description doesn't mention the 8 ESP points. That at least provides some additional incentive to actually build it.