AI Cultural Victories are EVIL

[joncnunn]

I assume CV = Culture Victory???

I'm thinking it's a minor benifit. But Philosphacy is probably more useful for that because double Great Person points when your specalists are primarly Arists will double your Great Artists being born and each Great Artist can culture bomb your 3rd best city 4000 culture points each.

I wouldn't think your UU would matter when acheiving a CV against the AI.

Now there are quite a few UBs that could hurry along a culture victory.

Originally posted by realpolitic
Is the creative trait important for a CV?

Are any other traits?

Is the UU inportant?

[wodan11]

Originally posted by couerdelion
I am talking about times around the 1000 BC - 1000 AD period. The sentence you use about finish GL in 2100 BC is certainly nonsensical since it is obvious that you can't do any of those things in 3000 BC lacking

a) A city
b) Either Priesthood or Sailing

Well you're right I pulled that date out of the air.

Regardless, I think what you're doing is looking for places to poke holes.

Try it yourself. Then, come back and we can talk again.

Since you’ve already said that you are not talking about your first three cities as being the cultural powerhouses

I believe I said that my 1st city was a cultural powerhouse (the capitol), and my 3rd city was one as well (the one I founded on the coast, that pinned Shaka to a north-easterly expansion).

Originally posted by realpolitic
Is the creative trait important for a CV?

Not really. I'd say that helps, but not a tremendous amount.

Are any other traits?

First, it depends on whether you want to try a CE CV (like Snoppy was talking about) or a SE CV (like I was talking about).

If CE, obviously Financial will help.

If SE, then Industrious is a good choice.

Philosophical will have synergy with either one, but only if you're doing an artist GP Farm.

Otherwise, well, there are several that will "help" even if not necessarily having synergy. Expansionist, for one.

Others such as Aggressive are almost always of obvious general use.

Is the UU inportant?

Not really, other than in general use.

Is the UB important might be a better question. The Greeks, Chinese, French, and some others all have very interesting UBs, in terms of a CV game.

Good luck!!

Wodan

[Kuciwalker]

Now there are quite a few UBs that could hurry along a culture victory.

Pavilion, hands down.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by realpolitic
Is the creative trait important for a CV?

Are any other traits?

Is the UU inportant?

I would say that CRE is not very important. Theatres are cheap buildings anyway. IND is presumably a good trait because of the wonder bonus that can be very useful early in the game.

Later in the game, I would say that SPI is the most useful since it first gives the cheap temples that allow cathedrals to be built. It also allows later game play to be dedicated to the cultural win without worrying too much about defence since any shock attack can be countered by a few civic changes (Nationalism, Theocracy, Slavery, and even Vassalage) and an advanced army can be drafted, bought or whipped

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by wodan11

Try it yourself. Then, come back and we can talk again.

Wodan

How can I try it if I have no idea how you're doing any of it. I'm not trying to poke holes in anything. I'm merely trying to see how you get into this position.

[Unimatrix11]

Well, i guess there is always the conflict in a (comparatively) good player (not to insult anyone) between the desire to help (and brag ) and to preserve one´s own strategy.

(Funny side-note: A friend of mine who just recently got civ IV and BTS, got on the ´trick´ of the CoL-oracle slingshot on his own, and therefore refers to it as ´his trick´. It doesnt matter how many times i point out to him, that i am aware of this ´trick´ for like 1.5 years now and that it used to be a well discussed matter on this forum for a long time - it remains ´his trick´ to him for which he claims his laurels and exclusive right to execute - which in our MP-games i grant him with a smirk...)

[couerdelion]

Thinking a bit more, I would say that the more important trait combos for a cultural victory are

IND/PHI for wonders and Great Artists
SPI/PHI for temples and Great Artists - and a fast tract to many of the early game wonders.

For the UB, I'd think that the Greek colosseum is the best. It gives both culture and artist slots suggesting that Alex might be a good leader for the CV.

[Kuciwalker]

Ind/Phi doesn't exist, for good reason.

[KMadeleine]

Originally posted by couerdelion
Thinking a bit more, I would say that the more important trait combos for a cultural victory are
...
SPI/PHI for temples and Great Artists - and a fast tract to many of the early game wonders.

every time i try for CV as a non-spiritual civ i make a note to never try that again. and then ignore the note. i play cultural as half-diplomatic goal really, it's part of how i defend myself against attacks when i'm not learning military stuff. the freedom to accept the latest cool civic demands and such anarchy-free is just priceless. and the caste -> whipfest -> back to caste.

spiritual would definitely be my favorite trait for CV as i play it even if temples were full-price.

[Yosho]

Hmmm...interesting.

One other advantage of going heavy cottage early instead of food/production/artists is that it makes it much easier to found several early religions, which helps a lot towards a culture victory in a couple of different ways.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by couerdelion
How can I try it if I have no idea how you're doing any of it. I'm not trying to poke holes in anything. I'm merely trying to see how you get into this position.

Looking at Wodan's screenshot and initial report, he had 10 rivals in total, and at least four were on his starting landmass. I dunno the exact settings, but I think we can assume it's not a small Terra map

If you know what you're doing - and Wodan certainly does - having more Civs compared to the standard settings can be leveraged to good advantage in terms of early trade (esp. happy), and if the map size is scaled up as well then there should be enough land for the player to grab.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli

Looking at Wodan's screenshot and initial report, he had 10 rivals in total, and at least four were on his starting landmass. I dunno the exact settings, but I think we can assume it's not a small Terra map

If you know what you're doing - and Wodan certainly does - having more Civs compared to the standard settings can be leveraged to good advantage in terms of early trade (esp. happy), and if the map size is scaled up as well then there should be enough land for the player to grab.

On the downside, more civs means more competition for the fixed number of wonders available

[Swiss Pauli]

But given that the AI's decision to build a wonder is somewhat random, and the fact that the AI doesn't get a free worker in BtS, it'll still probably get beaten to the early wonders by a good human.

[realpolitic]

I've just won at Immortal,/Normal 1565 AD 18 Civs. Didn't even get Corporation, my most advanced unit was cavalry. There were 280 turns to go, and I wasn't disciplined enough to stay out of war, I lost my disapline and went to war, which stopped me from building 3 +50% improvements. AsRome, I went for Iron Working 1st, which made the Colossus my 1st Wonder, which kept me solvent.

This may be possible at Diety! I'm not gonna try 'cause CVs are boring.

Having Praetorians conquer to keep my economy going was a big plus, Sistine is VERY important, I also had about 4GWs in each city.

[Jaybe]

I just want to thank you all (though particularly wodan) for this thread. It inspired me to make my FIRST attempt at a cultural victory.

While I never went beyond 20% Culture until the final sprint (and then up to 50-60%), I made it in the early 1950s (ca. turn 1050). Had to divert my attention mid-game to drive for Rifling as Montezuma had landed with some 20+ musket, cannon*, and curraissars; while I was still running knights. I lost only one coastal city for several turns (sigh, ... Orleans had been a worthy city at the time). Thereafter I paid a bit more attention to military techs like I usually do.

The most culture/turn per legendary city I had was a little under 1100.
3-continent hemispheres map, 10 opponents, Caesar Augustus, noble, ... no marble or stone was meaningfully available.

*cannon modded for intro at gunpowder