Spying

[Dinner]

When you are behind using spies to steal techs is key.

[LordShiva]

Oerdin sighting!

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Adagio
While I do like the new spying system, I don't like the spy units at all. The benefit is not good enough compared to the cost

How does the AI ever manage to sabotage anything? Whenever I want to use spies to see the enemy territory, I have to use two, as the first spy is always found within the first five turns, while other one might last 10-15 turns if it's lucky. This is without doing anything but walking

I haven't found that to be true; I think that depends on the EP ratio you have with the AI.

Anyway, in the early game, the spy unit is expensive, but late game, it seems really cheap for what you get. For like a third the cost of one infantry unit, you can make a spy, and with three of those you can do some major damage to the economy of your neighbor.

Also, want to make sure you win a vote at the Apastolic Palace or the UN? Well, it'd sure help if your main opponent suddenly had about 1/12th of his previous population, wouldn't it? Poisoning wells solves all kinds of problems...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

I can't think of one of the top of my head, some individual that by their spying genius has trully changed history.

Alan Turing

Ahhh.. NO.
A Cryptographer and mathematician is not a spy.

In civ terms, he is a Great Scientist.

[Kuciwalker]

100-nil.

[Kuciwalker]

Oh, and thank you for admitting that a computer scientist truly changed history

[HoldSteady]

'I can't think of one of the top of my head, some individual that by their spying genius has trully changed history. '

James bond? He saved the world many times...

[Indalecio]

Originally posted by GePap
he very idea of a "Great Spy" is just nuts to me. I can't think of one of the top of my head, some individual that by their spying genius has trully changed history.

Brutus? John Wilkes Booth?


Maybe that'd fall under Great Assassins?

OTOH, maybe knowing the name of a 'Great Spy' would be self-defeating. If you knew who they were, maybe they aren't so great after all. Maybe all Great Spies generated should be called, "Great Spy"

[wodan11]

Originally posted by GePap
can't think of one of the top of my head, some individual that by their spying genius has trully changed history.

Here are just a few. There are a good number more. All I did was pull up the Great Spy XML file. (i.e., let Firaxis do the work to come up with the list of candidates).

I don't doubt, that some of these could be debated. e.g., Guy Fawkes was unsuccessful in his assassination of King James I. So how did he "change history"? Well, you'd have to read up on the Gundpowder Plot to find all the ramifications. Heck, today they have a holiday in England for this guy.

Ephialtes (recognized by historians as beginning the era of Greek Democracy)
Balthasar Gerard (assassinated the leader of the Dutch independence movement)
Guy Fawkes (instrumental in the Gunpowder Plot)
John Honeyman (enabled some American victories in the Revolutionary War)
Sidney Reilly (true life basis for James Bond)
An Jung-geun (assassinated Prime Minister of Japan)
Claude Dansey (saved catastrophic failures of MI6, enabled victories on the Eastern Front in WWII)
Mata Hari (elevated exotic dancing to a "respectable" profession, enabled exotic dancing as a whole new industry in France)
William Donovan (father of the CIA)

Wodan

[HoldSteady]

hmm, yeah, I guess the best spies aren't known to the world Balthasar Gerards did assasinate William of Orange, though his politics were succesfully continued by Maurice- and later Frederik Hendrik of Orange, his sons. Hard to tell if he really changed history.

Interesting is that we still don't know if Mata Hari really spied for the Germans in WWI. There is speculation and believe that in fact she was a double spy, or, shot by the French to cover their command failures. Her file won't be open to investigators until 2017.

[wodan11]

Yes, that's interesting about Mata Hari. I guess we should recognize that that the truly successful spy who changes the world is probably unrecognized and totally anonymous.

It's like John Honeyman. Say he didn't exist... and say the U.S. lost a few more battles in the Revolutionary War... enough that the U.S. would not exist right now. That's changing the world, for sure.

Point is, the nature of espionage is in secrecy, not in being well known and having your exploits in all the newspapers.

Wodan

[Yosho]

A great spy? Mata Hari wasn't even a very GOOD spy.

But yeah, I don't find it unrealisitic for one great spy to generate vast amounts of espeanauge points on one rival all on his own. I mean, there was that one guy who was a very high ranking memeber of the CIA, a station chief in fact, who was secretly spying for the Russians for like 15 years before he was caught. Seems like that'd be worth a lot of EP's in civ terms.

[Lord Avalon]

Is William Stephenson (Intrepid) one of the spy names?

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Lord Avalon
Is William Stephenson (Intrepid) one of the spy names?

You can see all the great people here

Wodan

[enderw]

Marian Rejewski. He's the Polish Mathematician that cracked enigma and let the Allies read tons of German communications during WW2. Talk about can investigate cities. . .

Or even Try Ana Montes
who spied in the US for the Cubans for quite some time. .

[QUOTE] Originally posted by GePap
I am sure pletny of gamers like the new spy system, but I am not one of them. It is far too intrusive and too big a part of the game. The very idea of a "Great Spy" is just nuts to me. I can't think of one of the top of my head, some individual that by their spying genius has trully changed history.

Given that, I mostly ignore the whole business, and get annoyed when it is used against me.