Tweet
Let’s start first by saying that I don’t think FIN is a poor trait. But it is far from being a top-notch trait despite the latest poll here where it has received, far and away, the most votes.
To paraphrase, Blake, from another thread, the “starting speed” of a trait is an important consideration in rating how strong that trait is. I might even venture that the starting speed of the trait may be the most important factor since any early game turn-advantage will stay will you forever and can be used as leverage for the domination of the whole game.
FIN’s biggest problem is that it rarely does anything in the early game unless two conditions hold: you have a coastal start and you have fishing. Even here, the off-coast fish is something of a mixed blessing since it does not give you a FIN-bonus unless you build Colossus – certainly not an early game wonder.
“Hold on”, I here you say. “But what about cottages?”.
Now here is where I draw the distinction between “early-game” and “mid-game”. Some people might tend to draw the line at the point where borders start meeting neighbouring civs but I’m inclined to treat “early” as finishing sooner than this. I’m probably likely to draw the line at the point where barbs are sufficiently well managed in a pre-BTS game. Maybe expansion will have grown to 3 or 4 cities but not more, maybe you will have completed the Oracle or Great Lighthouse. Or maybe you will be in the middle or at the end of an early rush. In General, then, I’m talking somewhere in the region 1000 BC, there is still room for expansion and there are still probably gaps in the early tech tree.
For me, that period of the game is normally about a two key things you want from your city (food and production). The secret of the winning the game is to first get yourself a strong core of cities. This means expansion and, to expand you need both food and production, but not commerce. The commerce normally can wait and you can always supplement your commerce with the trade from new cities or a few scientists. Working cottages, on the other hand, doesn’t really help you to build settlers or an army. And even when you have cottages, you’ll have to wait a little before the FIN trait kicks in – unless you have a decent river site to use.
It is only when you are reaching the limits of your expansion that you will start to look towards your “cottage” industries to pay for it all – and the army that is being readied to continue the expansion into neighbouring lands. And this is after the early game has finished.
So short of a good seafood site, you FIN trait will give you very little in the early game. Even those rarer cases (precious metals/oases) only give a small incremental benefit (+1 commerce is not a great deal when added to the palace commere, commerce from foreign trade, 7 commerce from a gold mine)
And to compound all this, FIN does not even get the +100% hammer bonus for banks any more. I think this change was largely due to the fact that it is overrated. In my view, this was an unnecessary change that penalised a trait harshly for having too much good publicity.
I’m wondering if there may be some selective element in our views. One caveat that I would put in the above is that FIN can give a very nice start if it has a good location. If people habitually regenerate maps when playing with a FIN civ, then I suspect there may be an inordinate number of flood plain/river/coastal starts. If that is the case, it might explain why people like the trait so much. But give yourself a freshwater lake with cows, rice and marble and FIN barely gives you the half that other traits do.
To paraphrase, Blake, from another thread, the “starting speed” of a trait is an important consideration in rating how strong that trait is. I might even venture that the starting speed of the trait may be the most important factor since any early game turn-advantage will stay will you forever and can be used as leverage for the domination of the whole game.
FIN’s biggest problem is that it rarely does anything in the early game unless two conditions hold: you have a coastal start and you have fishing. Even here, the off-coast fish is something of a mixed blessing since it does not give you a FIN-bonus unless you build Colossus – certainly not an early game wonder.
“Hold on”, I here you say. “But what about cottages?”.
Now here is where I draw the distinction between “early-game” and “mid-game”. Some people might tend to draw the line at the point where borders start meeting neighbouring civs but I’m inclined to treat “early” as finishing sooner than this. I’m probably likely to draw the line at the point where barbs are sufficiently well managed in a pre-BTS game. Maybe expansion will have grown to 3 or 4 cities but not more, maybe you will have completed the Oracle or Great Lighthouse. Or maybe you will be in the middle or at the end of an early rush. In General, then, I’m talking somewhere in the region 1000 BC, there is still room for expansion and there are still probably gaps in the early tech tree.
For me, that period of the game is normally about a two key things you want from your city (food and production). The secret of the winning the game is to first get yourself a strong core of cities. This means expansion and, to expand you need both food and production, but not commerce. The commerce normally can wait and you can always supplement your commerce with the trade from new cities or a few scientists. Working cottages, on the other hand, doesn’t really help you to build settlers or an army. And even when you have cottages, you’ll have to wait a little before the FIN trait kicks in – unless you have a decent river site to use.
It is only when you are reaching the limits of your expansion that you will start to look towards your “cottage” industries to pay for it all – and the army that is being readied to continue the expansion into neighbouring lands. And this is after the early game has finished.
So short of a good seafood site, you FIN trait will give you very little in the early game. Even those rarer cases (precious metals/oases) only give a small incremental benefit (+1 commerce is not a great deal when added to the palace commere, commerce from foreign trade, 7 commerce from a gold mine)
And to compound all this, FIN does not even get the +100% hammer bonus for banks any more. I think this change was largely due to the fact that it is overrated. In my view, this was an unnecessary change that penalised a trait harshly for having too much good publicity.
I’m wondering if there may be some selective element in our views. One caveat that I would put in the above is that FIN can give a very nice start if it has a good location. If people habitually regenerate maps when playing with a FIN civ, then I suspect there may be an inordinate number of flood plain/river/coastal starts. If that is the case, it might explain why people like the trait so much. But give yourself a freshwater lake with cows, rice and marble and FIN barely gives you the half that other traits do.
then we can immediately see the synergy that the trait brings to the leader. But even without the FIN trait, Ragnar’s expansion plans are most adequately dealt with on his maps with a Great Lighthouse/Colossus combination. The fact that Colossus also works well with FIN is just a nice bonus: that wonder combination would work well for anyone where there is a lot of water. But I rather suspect that the ORG trait fits in better with Ragnar’s style. ORG is another “slow start” trait.
Comment