How can i improve things

[unamablebuiler]

After a years break from civ 4 I have now begun playing again.

This particular game was playing Spanish (random civ instead of my usual Roosevelt) containing the Germans(fredrick). Its now in the Isdustrial era and the other civs are slightly ahead in techs and maintaing it although i am close enough to be able to buy wonders from under them if i can get the money+ tech soon enough.
To this point i was focusing on preventing the gemans expanding and land grab. I think i did ok considering he was Fredrick (ORG/PHI) Also founded 4 religions and all have shrines.

Militarily I am a bit small and most of the arm is slightly out of date rifles instead of infantry but I am building them the other's armies are more numerous but still have medieval units in them. Warfare is just begining and is all naval at the moment and guess who neglected their navy :P

I havent really aimed for a victory and am playing with fewer than normal civs but i am still getting used to all of the features. At them moment i think either a a spaceship or cultural victroy would be more feasable

The save is a warlords 2.13 save.
Svaedgame

[Laertes]

It seems like you know what you need to do - focus on a victory condition that you want to achieve and make sure you can do it before someone else gets theirs. Might be cultural cities if you have all the shrines.

I would have thought uou need to pump out missionaries and convert enemy civs to your religiions, to maximise your revenue. Obviously that means make-nice with everyone to get open borders.

Work on your food surpluses to make the most of specialists in terms of culture and science.

Get your best production city and focus it on culture wonders if it has a shrine or military units if not.

You need to develop your fleet so you can fight off invaders before they arrive and then have good defensive units in border cities and valuable coastal cities. Can you trade for the techs?

I have not been playing long myself, and still pootling along, so maybe you have done all this stuff already. But Civ4 to me seems very much about having a strategy and focusing on it, and keeping your cities focused, whilst being armed to the teeth!

[snoopy369]

Without loading the save I suggest a few things.

First off, shrines are rarely useful after the first compared to a settled priest or a golden age. The first is okay because it helps spread your state religion and gives you cash in the early game, when you need it. Beyond that, a settled priest will usually give you about as much gold plus the hammer(s), particularly if you have a 'wall street' city (a city with +200% gold modifiers); unless that city is the same as your shrines (not usually as those are usually spread out) you make a lot more money that way.

Second off, convert the enemy civs to your religion, singular. NEVER spread religions other than your state religion outside your borders; an enemy civ will hate you just as much if it has a religion you founded but did not adopt as if it founded the religion. It's asking for trouble.

You should be out-expanding the AI easily. AI does not expand ferociously on any level really (up to monarch for sure); a human should have many more cities and much more land area. This is how you win at hard levels; have way more cities than your opponent.

Don't worry too much about naval warfare; focus on taking out the AI civs that you need to in order to expand (the nearest civs to you), and on trading for techs that you need. Make sure you work on researching techs the AI isn't working on if possible (often you will see a pattern with what they research); trade those techs for the ones the AI is working on.

[ZEE]

Originally posted by snoopy369
You should be out-expanding the AI easily. AI does not expand ferociously on any level really (up to monarch for sure); a human should have many more cities and much more land area. This is how you win at hard levels; have way more cities than your opponent.

no. this depends on HOW you expand. you (Snoopy) must be a 5-6 square-apart expander. I expand 3-4 tiles apart. While the AI may have more land than me, I have more CITIES. On the harder levels I know i will not have as much land (unless perhaps I am creative trait.) When it comes down to a war, however, I am spitting out units FASTER than the AI is because i simply have more cities to do so. Plus when an AI (or Snoopy) loses a city a huge chunk of land disappears. If I lose one its not a big deal, because I have units pumping out like crazy that says I will take it back and then some.

I also do not attack until I silmply overpower my opponent so completely that the only reason I will lost the war is sheer cheating/bad luck. BTW I keep my science slider at around 20-30 % and only build courthouses in my largest cities when I am going broke and I am quite capable of keeping up in science due to the sheer amount of SCIENCE BEAKERS that my numerous tight-packed cities are producing.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Second off, convert the enemy civs to your religion, singular. NEVER spread religions other than your state religion outside your borders; an enemy civ will hate you just as much if it has a religion you founded but did not adopt as if it founded the religion. It's asking for trouble.

I have to disagree with that. Sometimes, trouble is what you want.

It can be extremely useful to spread your religion to civs you want as friends, and to selectively pick a civ or two, and spread a different religion to it. Particularly if that's an aggressive civ, or a civ that you anticipate will be trouble later because of its ability to tech or because of its geographical position on the map.

Wodan

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by AAHZ


no. this depends on HOW you expand. you (Snoopy) must be a 5-6 square-apart expander. I expand 3-4 tiles apart. While the AI may have more land than me, I have more CITIES. On the harder levels I know i will not have as much land (unless perhaps I am creative trait.) When it comes down to a war, however, I am spitting out units FASTER than the AI is because i simply have more cities to do so. Plus when an AI (or Snoopy) loses a city a huge chunk of land disappears. If I lose one its not a big deal, because I have units pumping out like crazy that says I will take it back and then some.

I also do not attack until I silmply overpower my opponent so completely that the only reason I will lost the war is sheer cheating/bad luck. BTW I keep my science slider at around 20-30 % and only build courthouses in my largest cities when I am going broke and I am quite capable of keeping up in science due to the sheer amount of SCIENCE BEAKERS that my numerous tight-packed cities are producing.

Au contraire, I am a 3 square aparter. Most of my cities are minimum distance from each other once i've filled in the gaps. However, I certainly expand my cities outwards quickly (far apart) if there is another civ anywhere nearby, so that I can ensure that I am able to take enough territory for my ultimate expansion. You can't build 15 cities in a 70 square plot no matter how tight you pack them

Certainly cities matter more than land, but I suggest that, except at the highest levels, you should generally have more of both than the AI.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by wodan11

I have to disagree with that. Sometimes, trouble is what you want.

It can be extremely useful to spread your religion to civs you want as friends, and to selectively pick a civ or two, and spread a different religion to it. Particularly if that's an aggressive civ, or a civ that you anticipate will be trouble later because of its ability to tech or because of its geographical position on the map.

Wodan

I find that there are easier, and more predictable, ways to go to war with a civ ... like hitting the alt key and clicking on their name ...

[Asmodeous]

I think, snoopy, he was implying spreading your religion to a few civs you want as friends that are more trustworthy, and feeding a competing religion to a civ you know will be problematic so that not YOU will be more apt to wardec them (as you can just do it whenever), but your AI friends will like them less and be more apt to hit them, too.

Me.

[snoopy369]

Ahhh, true. Didn't think of it that way. Very devious.

I don't tend to have that many reliable AI friends as I tend not to go for early religions, but if you do that is quite clever

[wodan11]

Yes, exactly, Asmodeous. (Apt name, by the way.)

In addition, this makes the "problematic civ" more apt to go to war with your buddies, as well.

You're right, it's devious, but it shows the power of religion. The heathen dip penalty early game is definitely the strongest effect upon relations. Even later in the midgame and late game it's still very strong. Being able to pick and choose the religions of your neighbors pretty much allows you to pick what wars will happen, not just between you and AIs, but between AIs and AIs.

In effect, you can put a bullseye when and where you want it. It's basically a bone that you throw which is irrestible to the "dogs of war". Ragnar, Alexander, etc. It can likewise be a mans-best-friend aura that will keep the dogs from attacking you. Yes, a two-edged sword, but very powerful if used well.

Wodan

[unamablebuiler]

The main reason I go for religions is pretty simple each one can give 100+ raw with each shrine and thats nothing to sneeze at. Even early mid game you can have an extra 4 or 5 cities without organized trait. Spreading those religions you do get give more money to you.

If youre spiritual you can change state religion and civic without problems from anarchy so having multiple shrines in that case can be very useful indeed.

Other than that I need to have some means of getting wealth and that means currency. Though i am begining to think of what I could do with the pyramids i hardly ever get it though as i tend to head straight for COL then Currency.

The first techs i go for are usually roads, mining, agriculture Hunting, Then either BW or pottery then the other. unless I am well placed to snare a religion or three early.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by unamablebuiler
The main reason I go for religions is pretty simple each one can give 100+ raw with each shrine and thats nothing to sneeze at. Even early mid game you can have an extra 4 or 5 cities without organized trait. Spreading those religions you do get give more money to you.

+100 gold for one shrine ( I assme this is per turn) is already quite a lot. That's a minimum of 34 cities with the religion + all the gold modifier buildings. But unless you have a dual-holy city, the "second" to "fourth" religion needs 50 cities + a shrine.

Apart from the unnecessary diversion of beakers to the religions techs, you will also need to convert like mad. Assuming a minimum of 40 cities converted for each subsidiary religion, that's a total cost of 4800 hammers for missionaries and three priest specialists for the shrine.

Alternatively, convert those costs into catapults, trebs, knights (25 of each) and you can capture a dozen extra cities to give you a lot more than the +100 gold that the shrines are providing. The priest then are unnecessary and you can use the GPs for Golden Ages for a much higher yield

[snoopy369]

He said raw... that's a bit silly. Unless you're playing on a huge map anyway, marathon or something, you won't get close to 100 cities per religion.

[Asmodeous]

Originally posted by wodan11
Yes, exactly, Asmodeous. (Apt name, by the way.)

Why thank you. I like it.

Me.

[unamablebuiler]

Which is exactly what i do huge maps marathon speed.

You still have to support each and every single one of those units and how much is that going to cost you and will it bankrupt your economy?

In my case where I have already expanded to the max runnind 20 perecent science and only getting +2 gold or even neg gold at the point round the time your reaseacrhing currency. It will if you dont have vassalage and even if you dont i cant say it wont.