The Sistine Chapel is ridiculous

[Kuciwalker]

The Sistine Chapel used to be "kind of nice to have, but not terribly important." Now it's absurdly powerful, like creative on steroids. For those living under a rock , the SC now gives +5 culture to all State Religion buildings. Add a Monastery and a Temple to a new city and it's can compete culturally with old, established cities, and overwhelm new ones. I always try to get it now.

[Swiss Pauli]

It was always very helpful for culture wins, but the buff and the shift to Music make the beeline and build Sistene the one best route for a culture game. Previously there was the religious versus Music path choice, but now that's gone I feel the game is a bit poorer as a result.

[ColdPhoenix]

Didn't know that, will consider building it now!! It used to be that I would never build it unless I was going for a culture victory, even if I had nothing else to build in my highest production city I would just build research.

[One_more_turn]

Sistine's is a must for cultural wins, but I hate cultural wins. They are so underwhelming, and often at the mercy of AI civs.

[thyrwyn]

Combined with the AP it is really gross: make your state religion the same as the Apostolic Palace and your Temples and Monestaries give an additional +5 and +2!

[Arrian]

Yeah, the Sistine is actually pretty good now. Doesn't it provide some culture per specialist too? +2/turn, IIRC.

So if you're running Mercantalism and you build a brand new city (or capture one), it's like you're creative. Add in a temple, and you're at 7/turn. Nice.

I approve of the buff.

-Arrian

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by One_more_turn
Sistine's is a must for cultural wins, but I hate cultural wins. They are so underwhelming, and often at the mercy of AI civs.

Of the peaceful wins, culture's probably the least vulnerable to the AI.

[ColdPhoenix]

Don't forget the uni of sanskore and spiral minoret. Get those 4 wonders and you'll be holding off on free religion for a while...

[Kuciwalker]

Uni of Sankore and Spiral Minaret aren't that powerful. 2 science or 2 gold isn't nearly as powerful as 5 culture.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Arrian
Yeah, the Sistine is actually pretty good now. Doesn't it provide some culture per specialist too? +2/turn, IIRC.

Yes, that's what it did before (and still does).

[ColdPhoenix]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Uni of Sankore and Spiral Minaret aren't that powerful. 2 science or 2 gold isn't nearly as powerful as 5 culture.

I partly agree, especially if you're playing on a smallish map size. Culture's only really useful for your border cities and when you're conquering cities. You don't get the multipliers for it that you get for gold and science. With the gold bonus you can often run at 100% science.

[Martinus]

I don't see how this is that powerful as you guys claim - at best, it gives you +15 culture in some cities (not all, since you can't build cathedrals everywhere). Sure it is nice to have, but overpowered? Certainly not.

[Kuciwalker]

It's not quite overpowered, but it gives you +10 or +12 culture very cheaply in new cities, which is quite powerful. As I said in the OP, it means new cities easily hold up to old ones culturally, and can overpower new ones.

[One_more_turn]

To win culturally, you have to build lots of wonders and spend lots of commerce on culture, which guarantees that you will fall behind in tech.

On the other hand, Space Ship victory requires you to lead both in tech and productivity, two attributes that can also be applied militarily.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by One_more_turn
To win culturally, you have to build lots of wonders and spend lots of commerce on culture, which guarantees that you will fall behind in tech.

I thought it has been established that SE (that does not require you to do any of these things) is better for cultural victory than CE.