Aggressive AI

[Kataphraktoi]

Ok so after playing a bunch of games i find the agressive AI quite good. Blake Three issues i have with it

1. Incapable of winning versus another AI, in my games. This comes down to luck as the above post shows.
2. Warlords are always being used to make acedemies+instructors. Using them to boost a stack once in a while isnt a terrible idea...i ussualy pick a certain amount of units that will all be able to gain a level by doing so
3.Too many defensive units. Of course its risky but you really cant win wars with half a dozen defenders in each city. Im playing monarch and the AI cant touch me because its stacks just dont have the oomph. I have warriors in my core cities... I know its risky to use all available troops, but maybe sometimes?

[One_more_turn]

My 50 turns war with Genghis Khan in a Prince game (normal AI) produced the following enemy casualties:

Musketmen 22
Riflemen 95
Grenadiers 73
Cavalry 121
Catapult 32
Trebuchet 31
Galleon 74
Frigate 87
Ship of the Line 20
Airship 16

[Brutus66]

I have played three games recently with aggressive AI.
I have found the description in Solver's original post to be spot-on:

"The pacifist AI's aren't actually that much more likely to declare war, they just keep larger armies on hand as to not be easy victims. The naturally militaristic AI's go crazy."

That should be crazy with a capital C.
The first time I tried aggressive AI was the first time I have seen a nuclear exchange between AI's, and they were not hesitant about it either. It was a marathon-speed game, and the map turned into a giant desert because of all the global warming (I have to find out how to turn off GW).

Originally posted by AAHZ
you gave us aggressive AI. if you want to go crazy then change that so it will kick everybodys ass in less than 30 turns. but please just leave the "normal" game alone.

Agreed. Aggressive AI was described in the original post as perfect for hardcore players.
I think it is great for Apolyton's little "emperor level is a cakewalk" group, but if it had been included in the retail version as the standard setting, the casual player (i.e.; normal person- the game's targeted demographic of the average joe looking for entertainment) would just uninstall after a couple tries, take it back to Target and exchange it for a fun game.

[LzPrst]

damn. I've always considered myself hardcore. played civ since the 90's. but lately i seem unable to cope militarily. perhaps I need to run a few games with aggressive AI to teach me how to field and manage a military...

[LzPrst]

ok. I just fired up a game with aggressive AI. and I put in Alexander, Stalin, Shaka, Boudicea, Montezuma and a few other aggressives. I'll give a clue to how it went... in about 10 mins when I'm dead

[BigWilly1974]

Since going to Monarch, I've been able to do Ok, but not win the few games I've tried. Dropped down to Prince couple of days ago, and won on Prince (Domination Victory) last night. I'm finding Aggressive AI on Monarch though to be very challenging.

[LzPrst]

my game is progressing quite nicely. would anyone like to see a midgame AAR?

[Asmodeous]

Originally posted by LzPrst
my game is progressing quite nicely. would anyone like to see a midgame AAR?

Yes please, actually.

I'm not very good (have trouble with normal AI on Noble. ) but I'm trying to improve and I'm actually curious as to how different it is with Aggressive AI on, it sounds like I'd just get smited. :/

Me.

[MasterDave]

I have played a few games on Aggressive AI and it is better. I had one game in particular when I was running away with a huge tech lead but did not make many units because I felt safe on my continent where I had defeated my early rivals. The AI DOW'd me, took one of my three culture cities on the first invasion, and landed no less than seven loaded galleons of units that were a little obsolete but still a threat...

The Aggressive AI also fights eachother more, leading to some situations where there are two or three blocs of big powers with Vassal satellites, leading to late game world wars, which are pretty fun and not very common in earlier versions of Civ 4.

[LzPrst]

Germany against the World


Started a game with Aggressive AI and chose only Aggressive civs to contend with. Boudicea, Stalin, Alex and a few others. I myself am playing Frederick so as to not have any military advantages whatsoever. I suspect this will be very painful.

Difficulty: Prince
Big and Small
Standard size
Temperate
Normal Speed
Aggressive AI
Raging Barbarians
No tech brokering.


Off to a great start. Decent first city site and Mysticism AND Archery from huts. first tech: Bronze Working. Paranoia is strong early, many archers built. Scouting the area shows that I am on the southern tip of a continent, with only ice and frozen wasteland to my south. I will expand north.


AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Barbarians at the gates! and at the farms! and at the mines! and in the woods, hills and plains! After being flooded by Barbarian Warriors, of such numbers that I can hardly kill them off faster than they spawn, my archers are finally beginning to hold their ground and pushing the front outwards. I have constructed one city in a horrible place (fish, horse, rest = desert) to get Horses for the "Chariot" event. I failed it, but the city stands and my Chariots are good for whack-a-barb.

Having gone for Bronze Working first I can't seem to have any near my starting ground, but there is some to the north. Unfortunately, the barbarian hordes prevent any expansion that way at the moment.

Having Marble so close by I could not resist going for the Oracle. The turn before its completion 2 Barbarian Warriors attacked and lost against my lone defending Archer. Good to have some luck With the Oracle I got Hereditary Rule to get some heavy growth in my cities going. I have been building Archers with about 2/3rds of all production. But now I discover Iron Working and see I have some in Berlins reach. Silly me for not getting it earlier. Axemen, Spearmen and the occasional Swordsman helps me push the barbs the hell off my land! Wir brauchen Lebensraum!


Time goes on and I get a Great Prophet. Hmmm... I'm quite advanced it seems so I tech for Code of Laws and hope to get Confucianism before anyone else does. And lo and behold, I get it. I send my Great Prophet to Munich to found the Kong Miao for a much needed cash boost. It seems my bloated military is proving to be quite a drain on my economy, yet even so, Alexander is pulling ahead on the Power Graph. Not a good omen... But I have some troops and I have plenty of space to expand into. I intend to expand as far as the great river before focusing on consolidating my assets. Berlin has great production and supplies the vast bulk of armed forces.

With Code of Laws combined with the Organized trait I'm working on throwing up a few Courthouses. That should strengthen my economy even further. Running 2 Scientists in Berlin my Oracle manages to squeaze out another Great Prophet I wanted a scientist. Theology or Golden Age... Choices choices... Another Religion might not be a bad idea, but a Golden Age right now would greatly enhance my status. I'll go for the GA.

Oh crap. Alex is expanding southwards towards me, and he's got his army spearheading his settler push. He has been building nothing but troops and settlers it seems. His Power Graph Rating is shooting up, I have to throw together a few thousand soldiers ASAP!

As suspected. Alex's army was not out for a morning stroll. My Chariots are useless against his Phalanx so I'm mass producing Axemen. If only they can get to the front fast enough...

Ah. Well fought. By using the river and hills I managed to fend off the initial onslaught. His armies turned and fled. But he is still far stronger than I. Is he plotting a naval invasion..? I strengthened my coastal city a little and kept fighting. Though Alexander had far greater strength I had the advantage of terrain and managed to stave him off. Realizing that this war would drain me for everything I had I called up Shaka who was a minor civilization and gave him 3 Techs to help me out against Alex. Despite being weaker than the both of us, it seems Alex suddenly had his hands full with a twofront war and I was able to push him back. I have by now gotten Machinery and Feudalism giving me a technological superiority as well. for some reason Alex defended his southern cities poorly and with some luck my Swordsmen and Axemen took Mycenae from him. That settled it and despite his vast army now marching to retake it he agreed to peace, giving me Horseback Riding, I assume to give me something else to ride other than his arse.


A few decades of peace has done me a world of good. I am now moving along quite nicely and I have built many improvements as well as expanded my empire by putting in a few extra cities where there was room for them. All in all things are progressing nicely. Alexander however has not given up and has once again been building his military. I wonder where that little army is headed...

Also in the news, Stalin just made an appearance with a Caravel. I suspect that it is paranoid to assume it to be the scouting expedition for an invasion force, but better safe than sorry. And I have Alexanders Elephants to worry about...


Perhaps I'm getting careless, but my empire is so large that I dont have any concerns on the Power Graph,(though Alex is still ahead) that I've decided to throw up a few wonders. More specifically the Statue of Zeus, The Parthenon and hopefully the Great Library.
YES! Got all 3. But now Shaka has gone and declared war on Alexander. And he'll probably lose. And the only thing worse than fighting Alex would be to fight Alex AND a vassalized Shaka, so I'm supporting Shaka with DOW on poor Alex. Despite his superior numbers he just cant seem to get his act together. A few Catapults and Crossbowmen conquered Knossos and Alex agreed to Peace again.

Well, time to go to bed.Here's a summary. I am the dominant Empire on my continent. Alex is squeazed between my hulking nation and Shaka's rampant militarized mini-state. The situation is well in my favor. Unfortunately dear Stalin across the ocean has outteched me quite greatly. This is a matter of some concern. My Production, Gold and Food is still greater than his according to the Power Graph, but he is still ahead. I have to build some Caravels and take a look at his empire. I'm starting to fear the lands in the west...



PS. I have been using a untraditional strategy of focusing on terrain improvements favoring food and production for quick military or alternatively specialists. Cottages are few and far between, most of my tech comes from specialists and my core cities producing tech. this is probably why stalin is ahead, but my production dwarfs his. I will post some screens and graphs tomorrow. now I must sleep.

[LzPrst]

also, I've had lots of room so I've been expanding peacefully at a steady pace always ensuring I had the capacity to defend newly founded cities. I also suspect that my "corner" position is my best friend, since I only have 1 border. though I have lots of troops in my southern cities for happiness issues.

[marioflag]

I personally prefer more Agg AI for 2 reasons:
-games are more competitive and AI behaves smarter
-it's more realistic, in other words Agg AI more resemble human history.


I have personally 1 issue with this AI:
-war declarations should be smarter

First let me say that i don't know anything about the AI limits so i don't know what could be done and what not.
My point is that often AI declaration of war are not "smart" e.g. attacking an AI which is located in the opposite part of the world or in a different continent should happen less frequently.
An AI attacking another civ which is far should take more in consideration what are its gains in conquering its cities, because mainteinance costs are higher and defending distant cities is harder than defending cities which are nearer to your(their) motherland.
The new overseas mainteinance cost is also another thing which should be taken more in consideration because its cost is huge, now AI doesn't seem to take them in account.In other words AI should calculate more carefully when attacking a civ which is distant because its advantages are lesser than in the case the attacked civ is nearer to its empire; blindly attacking any civ does have a negative performance on AI.
On the contrary AI should gang up more often against you if you are achieving a victory, this would be just a smart behaviour, which AI now doesn't do.
Even adding a positive diplomacy modifier could help solving this problem.

[Sir Og]

I haven't played the aggressive AI enough so I can't comment but I like the normal AI very much.

Overall the game feels easier than warlords. It feels as easy as the vanilla but the AI there was really stupid and even the ridiculous bonuses could not compensate. I think there is great progress regarding the AI. Great job Blake

I haven't noticed that the normal AI is too passive. In one of my recent games Monty conquered his whole continent and came for me with six loaded galeons (this is something I see for the first time from civ AI and I am playing this game for over 15 years now).
Something else that I have noticed is that the normal AI does not beeline for Feudalism and Rifling as it used to before and this makes it easyer for the human to conquer cities. Especially since the AI does not build as many archers as before.

[Fidel]

I've finally tried the agg AI (with latest of the solver's unofficial patching). I love it.
Lost first two games when massive stacks hammered me into oblivion.
Third time around, I won by a whisker with Khmers. 12 civs, large, epic, random number of continents turned out to be 5. I shared my smallish one with English, who found religion and I simply had to kill them and take over the Hindu holy city of London. Beelined to Optics, Astronomy, set up overseas trade and watched the superpowers develop. On one continent, huge Zulus vasallised Izzy. Cath was there, big and powerful and at peace with them. On another, Koreans and Pericles (no 2, right after me) were battling it out all the time. I spread my religion to isolated Darius, and to Suleimand and Lincoln. Duthc were piss poor. Built AP but it was not of much use to me.
Now I was leading throughout the game, but I notice that Pericles will easily win cultural race if I do not stop him. So, two invasions later I capture his biggest city (Corinth), but it leaves the bulk of my tanks and infantry on that continent. My navy was competent, but my main continent was depleted of strong forces. I vassalise Pericles, but check PR and see that Zulus are twice my size...invasion is imminent. I send out airships to recon sea and I spot that a HUGE fleet is approaching...10 full transports, around 15 destroyers and two carriers task force...massive. My fleet is okay but it simply cannot prevent invasion, they are heading for my coastal capital (relocated to London) and it will fall (even if AI stupidly attempts aphibious invasions in order to lower its odds of success...Blake, why?).
Now, I managed to build 2 ICBMs before Pericles pushed through no-nukes resolution. Shaka built SDI. There is only one thing to attempt - I DOW on Shaka while his fleet is on the way, and drop two precious nukes. One is intercepted, but one thankfully creates carnage. I scramble all that I have, there is a huge naval battle and I annihilate his task force. I fended of a couple of carrier task forces later and got the peace.
It was FUN . His PR dropped a good third after that huge naval battle, but while I was building spaceship, bastard built Internet and beefed up his forces again. Without huge navy, however, he decided to decimate Cathy, while I managed to complete the spaceship.
Aggressive AI - certainly a very very interesting option. The only question I have is - why does AI always attempt amph invasion? It used to always go for landing before - why such a change now?

[Jaybe]

why does AI always attempt amph invasion? It used to always go for landing before - why such a change now?

As an amateur answer:
Because the element of surprise can at least sometimes trump being overwhelmed on the beachhead. Otherwise stated as "people were complaining that the AI was NOT making amphibious attacks" when they could have worked.

Consider that the aggressor civ has very imperfect info on your troop dispositions, and the AI is not even programmed to consider which of your units are within striking distance (railroads in your case).

Before BtS, I have seen the AI make strong landings (next to my capital, for instance), but it made no difference -- they were still destroyed (with a little anxiety & straining of effort on my part). They chose to try to heal in their assault positions instead of attack & raze my city, so they were destroyed by my next-turn reinforcements.

I think the AI needs a little more focus on marines & amphibious promotion. Keep several (NOT All) of these units in reserve coastal areas so they can be dispatched to transports.