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BtS' Poisoning Water Supply - Fair or Broken?

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  • #1

    BtS' Poisoning Water Supply - Fair or Broken?

    Hey Gang,

    I've seen a few posters over at CFC whining that the new espionage option of poisoning the water supply is broken, i.e. waay too potent for the cost.

    I'd love to get some feedback from the many distinguished testers in this forum if they think this is something that needs some immediate patching or if you think its just a lot of whining (since I don't have the game myself yet, I can't verify this one way or the other myself).

    Thanks in advance!
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  • #2
    8 mister yuck stickers for what? 10-30 gold for 10 turns?

    or

    8 unhappy faces for the same price.

    Since you get a spy early on, you can pretty much decimate cities in the early ages.

    [edit] PS. I've yet to see the AI use a Spy or a Privateer.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by acuoio
      8 mister yuck stickers for what? 10-30 gold for 10 turns?

      or

      8 unhappy faces for the same price.

      Since you get a spy early on, you can pretty much decimate cities in the early ages.

      [edit] PS. I've yet to see the AI use a Spy or a Privateer.
      Still no first hand knowledge myself but I have read MANY posts whining about the AI's use of spies. I mean this thread I started is after reading a couple of different posts about, "That's totally unfair what the AI did to me with the poisoning the water supply!"...I really doubt there would be the same amount of outrage if it were more, "Hey, poisoning the AI's water is a cheap new way to keep the bastages out of your hair!".

      No clue if the AI can use privateers at all.

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      • #4
        At marathon speed, that 8 ill/unhappy gets multiplied to 24. This often reduces the population severely -- like to ONE.

        Game ETA is tomorrow, so it will be some time until I have personal experience. On a huge map, if I have 15+ cities, I would probably just grin & bear it if it happened to me, even if it was a primary national-wonder city. With 8 or fewer cities, I could be severely tempted to immediately do some xml editing, reducing the normal-speed 8 of the two missions to 3 or 4, since I always play marathon.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by LordGek

          Still no first hand knowledge myself but I have read MANY posts whining about the AI's use of spies. I mean this thread I started is after reading a couple of different posts about, "That's totally unfair what the AI did to me with the poisoning the water supply!"...I really doubt there would be the same amount of outrage if it were more, "Hey, poisoning the AI's water is a cheap new way to keep the bastages out of your hair!".

          No clue if the AI can use privateers at all.
          Wrong. The "whining" is the same the other way round. Reason is that in marathon (and in epic, albeit less so) games, the poisoning/fomenting unrest is strong enough to reduce a city down to one pop within a few turns. Worse than any nuke (and cheap and invisible and without going to war), essentially breaking the game, no matter who does it to whom.

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          • #6
            Seems like the game wasn't tested well. Other people are saying a couple of the scenarios are broken because the AI doesn't know how to use the new rules/units at all.

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            • #7
              In my so far only BtS game my vassals kept poisoning my border cities. As I played Marathon, my Baghdad, which I took from Sallie, shrank down to 5 from 20. Not even nukes can do that.
              Well, I cranked out some spies, performed some counterespionage and put them in all my cities. Don't quite know if the second part helped, but I started catching much more spies.
              Graffiti in a public toilet
              Do not require skill or wit
              Among the **** we all are poets
              Among the poets we are ****.

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              • #8
                Sounds unfair to increase the number of poisoned people for marathon games. Would have made more sense to increase the duration of poisoning.
                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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                • #9
                  I assume this is one of the easier XML edits, anybody know which file and what variable?

                  Sounds like another thing getting "multiplied by 3" w/o it really being thought through.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Proteus_MST
                    Sounds unfair to increase the number of poisoned people for marathon games. Would have made more sense to increase the duration of poisoning.
                    Good call and, I'll bet the intention that got botched in execution. If anybody could tell me which XML file defines this stuff I will switch those two variables (so it LASTS 3X as long but not 3X as powerful).

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                    • #11
                      There is only one variable, that's the problem. You can only change length AND power.

                      Besides, if you think about it a little more, you will notice that changing duration but not power would actually NOT fix the problem. If you're interested, check the CivFanatics bugs forum, I won't repeat it all in here.

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                      • #12
                        Spies are just sick in multiplayer games. Goodbye cruel world if an enemy gets the upper hand. Your cities will be reduced to dust and all the tech stolen if you don't invest in espionage. It's pretty easy to destroy an enemy civilization before attacking, with little effort.

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                        • #13
                          I think it is one of the things that will take a while to get used to.

                          I have only played a few times - but espionage is something you do need to invest in - even if just to stop people/AI poisoning you to bits.......
                          I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

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                          • #14
                            Bet it gets fixed for epic/marathon in the inevitable patch.
                            No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
                            "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blaupanzer
                              Bet it gets fixed for epic/marathon in the inevitable patch.
                              I would say so - it is particularly brutal on Marathon.....
                              I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

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