Beyond the Sword: A Betrayal of Soren's Vision?

[Virdrago]

Re: Beyond the Sword: A Betrayal of Soren's Vision?

Originally posted by monkspider
When reading the previews for Beyond the Sword I get a sense of both excitement and apprehension. While many of the proposed changes for Beyond the Sword are very ambitious, it is clear to me that most of them would never have occured on Soren's watch. I would even go so far as to say that in some ways BTS is a betrayal of Soren's original vision of a simpler, more streamlined, more newb friendly game of Civ. Let's consider some of the announced changes.

Monkspider: Though I agree with you on some of your reasons (and disagree on others), I will answer your first paragraph, which was your point.

Maybe BtS is a betrayal of Soren's vision of a simpler, more streamlined game, but it is an expansion. Any simple, more streamlined game is the original. People who want to play Civ IV and not get bogged down by all the complexities the expansions add will not buy them.

For others; like you and me and almost everyone who posts here; we are interested enough that we want to delve deeper into Civ. We don't mind the extras, and even want them. Therefore, we bought Warlords, and will get BtS. BtS may be a betrayal, to a point, but most people who buy expansions welcome the complexity they may bring.

I believe BtS will continue to be streamlined. The new additions are not game-breaking (at least I hope), and from the hints that have been put out so far, don't seem to change the game too much.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Ijuin
On budgeting: I would like to see the ability to adjust the sliders in increments smaller than ten percent. Let's have players able to devote fifteen percent to culture and forty-five percent to research, for example.

On the space race: I liked the Civ 2 version of the starship, where you had to balance cost/time of construction, travel time, and score bonus. You could build a maxed-out ship at high expense for the score bonus, or you could build a minimum, cheap ship in the hopes of launching first, or you could build one with maximum engines and minimum modules to minimize travel time (and possibly overtake a rival who had launched first).

I'd say it's a little late for suggesting improvements. The XP is no doubt very close to going gold and being ready for distribution.

I agree with you on the space ship points though. I pulled off a few last minute victories in Civ 2 by building a space ship that was just a little bit faster than the one that had already launched.

[LDiCesare]

On budgeting: I would like to see the ability to adjust the sliders in increments smaller than ten percent. Let's have players able to devote fifteen percent to culture and forty-five percent to research, for example.

That's already doable in Vanilla Civ IV. Just mod the appropriate xml file, though I can't remember which one it is, I did see it when modding away.

[Xorbon]

Re: Beyond the Sword: A Betrayal of Soren's Vision?

Originally posted by monkspider
Native Americans: While not a true betrayal of Soren's vision, it is just a horrible name and I highly doubt that Soren would have let such a bad idea gain any traction.

I have to agree with you there.

Personally, I would prefer if that civ was called "Generic North American Indiginous Aboriginal Peoples". That rolls off the tongue so much better.

[Fidel]

I will expect anything Firaxis throws at me, so far it has been good.
There is only one thing, though - is there ANY chance they will return Baba Yetu to the opening sequences? Now on Warlords I gotta listen to some grunting and screeching, its awful.
So, Solver, any chance to get back and stop experimenting on that particular one?

[MosesPresley]

Originally posted by ben04

Culture swapping isn't bad, so why does this have to be bad?

It doesn't have to be bad, but I suspect it will be aggravating as it will be based on your diplomatic relations with the other civs. Diplomacy has been arbitrary and erratic at best in civ4 imo. The player has little control over diplomatic relationships other than giving away the house and adopting the majority religion.

With culture swapping the player has much more control over the situation. The player can build more culture producing buildings or place a lot of troops in the culturally threatened city.

[Verrucosus]

Originally posted by LaRusso
... There is only one thing, though - is there ANY chance they will return Baba Yetu to the opening sequences? Now on Warlords I gotta listen to some grunting and screeching, its awful. ...

I had a similar problem with the Warlords intro movie. It's just not as inspiring as the original one. (On the other hand, maybe I'm just not enough of a warmonger to appreciate it.)

That problem was easy enough to solve: rename the intro movie file in the Warlords\Assets\Movies\Intros folder, copy the original intro movie into that folder and rename it intro.bik. In theory, that should also work with the openingmenu.mp3 file that should be in the soundtrack subfolder.

Now, replacing the sinister guy with his sword by the classic Earth with Sunrise/Sunfall background back should be more difficult, because it's probably not a single art file, but I'm sure a mod creator could help you there.

Verrucosus

[joncnunn]

My main thoughts about the expanded Space Race are that:
Pre-Blake's Mod it would have just prolonged the game that had already been decided before the modern era.

But, with Blake's Mod, in Warlords the modern era does indeed seem too short and I think an actual space race to land on AC would be exciting.

[joncnunn]

On something for every play style, Warlords itself was more for War Monglers than Builders, so it would balance things out if Beyond the Sword is more for Builders than War Monglers.

[alms66]

A betrayal of Soren's Vision???

God I hope so (and I use this phrase VERY rarely, so take it with all the weight it deserves)...
That is to say, I hope it's finally a more complex version of civ, even though I know it's not, and it's more of the same BS, that is just very, very minor improvements and/or complexities that would not boggle the mind of your average 3rd grader. I can't wait for the day that Civ graduates to the 6th grade level (at least and dare I hope the 12th grade level)...

[snoopy369]

Do you have a specific problem with it? What element of Soren's vision for Civ4 (which indeed is a much simpler game) do you think makes it too 'dumb' for you? I think a lot of people prefer it to Civ3 and previous versions for this simplicity itself...

Remember, you can't get much simpler of a TBS than Chess, and that's considered fairly intelligent by those who think about such things ...

[Kuken]

Is Soren a Great Prophet?

[petermarkab]

Re: Re: Beyond the Sword: A Betrayal of Soren's Vision?

Solver talks about there being a focus for the XP and from my perspective, BtS has all the ingredients to make the middle and end game a lot more exciting, busy and competitve. I'm looking forward to it not least because it will stop me from quitting a game (through boredom) as soon as I reach the cavarly/rifling era.

Originally posted by Xorbon
Personally, I would prefer if that civ was called "Generic North American Indiginous Aboriginal Peoples".

surely you mean Gnaiap, and its associated Gnaiapese, and the Mighty Gnaiap Empire?

[Kuken]

does that include eskimos?

[Martinus]

Originally posted by MosesPresley
The Apostolic Palace doesn't look like a good idea from a gaming pov. From what I have read, it will allow captured cities to be returned to the "rightful owner". That would be aggravating.

Obviously, it will only apply if both parties to the conflict belong to the same religion as the owner of the Apostolic Palace (the "Pope"). If you don't want the Pope meddling with your conquests, change your religion - simple.