Worst 3 concepts in the history of gaming

[Pinchak]

Yeah, come to think of it I have grinded here and there...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Pinchak
MMORPGs are alot of fun if you can get involved from the start when everyone is new.

True, or failing that, at least on a fresh server.

[Shrapnel12]

The only thing I don't like about Vassal states is that the only thing you can really force them to do as far as tribute goes, is give you available resources. Now if the vassal is voluntary, I understand this, but when a civ agrees to become a vassal so that you won't destroy them, then they should basically be your slave. They should take their abuse and ask for more from their kind master. If they don't, you should be able to declare war. That's part of an overall problem I have with Civilization though. Rival nations are irrationaly brave in the face of certain death. Granted I don't think a civilization should just fall on their sword in fear of you, but when you are the big kahuna blitzing through enemy territory with your legions of tanks and they are hiding in their last remaining city behind their one little archer, they should do anything you ask that will allow them to stay alive in the game. Instead they respond to your commands with smart alec comments and even counter threats. Of course I could just agree to spare a civ and then destroy it later, so maybe something could be done to enforce my agreement, or the nation could consider my reputation (like in previous civ versions) and only deny me in certain death because they know I'll break my word anyway. I don't know how many times I've demanded tribute from someone and declared war on them anyway, and the rest of the idiot civs trusted me not to do the same to them. Surely game developers are smart enough today to balance this out and find a feasible solution?

[Pinchak]

Ok, ok, I was orginally joking about sweaty little chinese people working in MMORPG sweatshops farming gold...

Until i ran across THIS.




I guess reality is sometimes stranger than fiction.


NOTE: My little speel about the remote detonators was pure fiction... or was it?

[Ravenloff]

Originally posted by kekremsi
Ganking and grinding are WoW concepts. They mean player killing unsuspecting players/in unjust situations and spending time killing same monsters for days and days for tiny bit of reputation gains or gold (which the game almost forces you to at max level) I wish I didn't know these concepts considering the significant amount of time wasted regarding them.

Talking about turning the feature off; sure I can do it but then again I can play Civ III. It seems to me like it's a feature that's meant to define this version of Civ like the culture concept defined Civ III nicely. I'd feel like I dumbed the game down for my needs if I disabled it if you know what I mean.

Ganking and grinding were facts of MMO life long before WoW was even a concept. The thing that really kills me is that games like the original version of Star Wars: Galaxies actually BUILT GRINDING and AFK-gaming into the design. Mind-boggling...actually, if Lucas (post SW:TESB) had anything to do with it, maybe it's not.

[Nitro2985]

I remember a game I played a while back. There were two main continents, I was on the eastern one as the Russians I think. I controlled most of it, with only one nation left on my continent which was not a vassel or dead.

Over on the other, Isabella was nearly tied with me for points and had 2 vassels. She decided to attack the Germans, a small nation who I was friendly with. They sent me a plee for help and I accepted and managed to save them from destruction, I wansn't even all that fond of having useless cities over in their area so I was gifting them back to the Germans as I recovered their lost cities. About 10 turns after I had landed my troops over there to help them though the Germans capitulated to the Spanish and declared war on me. I quickly declared peace.

Needless to say, I was quite angery. I wasn't ready for a war with with Isabella and her 3 vassels but I built up my military and managed to get tanks before she did. I even managed to get two nations over on that continent to become my vassels and finally, once I was ready, I launched my attack on her. I first took out the entire German nation, then another of the smaller vassles of Isabella and cut her empire in two thanks to first my tanks, then my modern armor. In the end I probably captured some 40 cities and cut a swath from one end of their continent to the other while wiping out 2 of her vassels completly and freeing the third because of how much of her land she lost.

Now, that's the kind of game I love, and it couldn't have happened without vassels.

[snuggs]

Sounds quite similar to one I had. I was the Germans on a Continents map. It was me and a handful of other, weaker civs on one continent. The nearer ones all shared my religion and we were very cosy.

But on the continent west next were the expansionist Celts. At the point I discovered them they had just finished with the Arabs and were bearing down on the Chinese. Then the war lapsed.

So I spread the one true faith into the new continent everywhere my missionaries could reach. The Celts closed their borders almost immediately and since they were second-placed for victory and gaining fast we were on a collision course. Fortunately I had the technological edge.

But it took time to prepare (Marathon speed). In between times I converted the Chinese, established several trades and we got very close to the point I had them in a Pact. When the Celts, inevitably, declared war I was not quite ready and the Chinese lost three cities on the first turn of the war.

I steamed in with a massive amphibious invasion and liberated two of the captured cities, turning them back over to the Chinese.

However, the Celts were still advancing towards the Chinese capital, burnt another small city and despite my having brought overwhelming force into the area I was sorely vexed with Mao agreed to become Brennus' vassal and declared war on me.

The Chinese, already crippled by war with the Celts, stood no chance and I cheerfully butchered their navy and overran both civilisations with my super-elite infantry and the panzers that were just coming online.

The problem, then, with the option to force vassals seems to be the AI is poor at judging who is likely to win a war. Had Mao stuck with me, he'd have had all his cities back within three or four turns and his civ would have survived to the end of the game.

[Shrapnel12]

It is probably a problem with the AI as you say snuggs, but you could explain it away (if you were so inclined). I'm sure the Chinese did not realize your full cababilities With their limited knowledge they saw a powerful enemy taking city by city and an ally that was ineffective in stopping it. Perhaps the Chinese ruler felt this was the best you could do and the Celts would eventually defeat you too. Or perhaps he was a bit too confident of his own abilities, thinking his new alliance was way more then you could handle. I find that a healthy imagination greatly helps cope with the most annoying aspects of Civilization (namely diplomacy).

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
I find that a healthy imagination greatly helps cope with the most annoying aspects of Civilization (namely diplomacy).

QFT!
It also helps when a battle goes contrary to your expectations.

[Chaos Theory]

Don't forget that Alpha Centauri did vassals well - factions that were utterly beaten would simply surrender to you, and wouldn't break the pact unless you did something egregious like use planet busters. Any factions that ended up surrendered to multiple factions were in a bit of a sticky spot, but rarely merited much attention.

[snuggs]

Aye, you have to invoke CivZen in these situations. It's not as if the world's leaders have always acted with perfect mental clarity and we can put all this sort of nonsense down to factors beyond what's represented in the game.

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
It is probably a problem with the AI as you say snuggs, but you could explain it away (if you were so inclined). I'm sure the Chinese did not realize your full cababilities With their limited knowledge they saw a powerful enemy taking city by city and an ally that was ineffective in stopping it. Perhaps the Chinese ruler felt this was the best you could do and the Celts would eventually defeat you too. Or perhaps he was a bit too confident of his own abilities, thinking his new alliance was way more then you could handle. I find that a healthy imagination greatly helps cope with the most annoying aspects of Civilization (namely diplomacy).

[trumbo]

IIRC, SMAC and SMAX factions only became local followers if your covert teams rescued them from a faction that wiped them out (something I'd love to see in Civ4).

What ever happened to the SMAC conversion someone announced?

[wodan11]

[SIZE=1]What ever happened to the SMAC conversion someone announced?

It's being worked on. Patience, grasshopper.

Wodan