CIV shouldn't have Siege Units

[ZEE]

Originally posted by Senethro
Siege units are only a problem if a lower investment of Siege/Offense beats a higher investment of defenders, which I've never found to be the case unless the defenders make it easy by all standing on the same tile.

AKA cities. a very effective strategy vs cities. i go for cities THEN wipe out the opponents field SoD unless directly threatened. and SoD's are easily wiped out by another more powerful SoD, or a less powerful SoD with plenty of siege weapons with collateral damage for ALL. as far as reasonable solutions, im not a modder im a strategist and tactician...

[rah]

As much as I'm not thrilled with the SODs made up of 15 artilary units and two other defenders, I'm not that much against them. CIV IV combat is a rock, paper, scissors match. There has to be a rock for SODs, and that's siege units. (if it wasn't them, it would have to be something else) I do wish they had no defensive capabilities unless in a city and could be captured. But it would be nice if they had range. Two squares and maybe three if they were on a hill with an auto attack as soon as an enemy unit moved into range. I think this would lead to more strategic planning of open field warfare.

Isn't there a unit that is immune to collateral dammage?
It may be UU. The chinese crossbows. Not that a crossbow is going to last long against an artilary unit.

[proviisori]

Originally posted by rah

Isn't there a unit that is immune to collateral dammage?
It may be UU. The chinese crossbows. Not that a crossbow is going to last long against an artilary unit.

Cho-Ko-Nu gives collateral damage, it is not immune to it.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Senethro
Siege units are only a problem if a lower investment of Siege/Offense beats a higher investment of defenders, which I've never found to be the case unless the defenders make it easy by all standing on the same tile.

Like in cities for instance! To add to that you get a additional promotion aimed at improving your battle odds, on a unit that already can reduce the inherent city defence to 0.

For good players once you've won a couple of battles the city raider cats (or later trebs) just maul everything in SP with minimal losses.

[rah]

Originally posted by proviisori


Cho-Ko-Nu gives collateral damage, it is not immune to it.

Yeah you're right but I still think there is a unit immune. (and not just other seige units)

[ZEE]

agreed, dr spike

[Arrian]

Machine gunners are immune, rah, since they are classified as siege units and siege units do not suffer collateral.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

On the subject of the thread...

I think it's clear that CIV's implementation of arty is functional but not very pleasing to many. Thus, it is imperfect and I'm all for coming up with something better. I remain unsure of exactly what that something is, though.

-Arrian

[ZEE]

agreed. i still like the idea of defensive siege counter-battery fire though.

[Alexander I]

I like the shock units idea for our current siege units. Revamped siege units should have a bombard function more like Civ3 had.

Originally posted by Alexander01
more like Civ3 had.

I can't believe I just said that!

[Saurus]

Well, I´m also one of those who never really have felt at home with the "siege weapons"-concept in CIV IV. The whole system is strange.

For instance, my biggest gripe is the city siege situation:
Exactly why is it that the attaking siege units are allowed to bombard the defenses of a city for free whitout beeing shot upon by the defenders (who obviously are just too lazy to return fire or what?) while the defending siege are somehow not allowed to bombard the attaking units but must kill themselves in suicide runs?
If one thinks about it, the situation is just insane.

[rah]

Yes, put that way it does sound quite silly.

[Brutus66]

This may be a little off-topic, but while we are talking about bombardment, why aren't bombers allowed to destroy railroad improvements? Seems to me that in WWII, tranportation infrastructure, particularly rail centers, were favorite targets.
I will probably try to mod this, but it would have made life a lot easier if the designers had put more comments in their code.

[ZEE]

another good mod option. bombers SHOULD be able to be more effective vs railroads and should DEFINATELY do more damage. but bombers ARE siege units in my mind, so its not OT

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Alexander01
I like the shock units idea for our current siege units. Revamped siege units should have a bombard function more like Civ3 had.

I can't believe I just said that!

What's Civ3?