Why are the AIs so friendly to each other

[couerdelion]

I have recently noticed that the Warlords AI civs seem to get along fine with each other at emperor level. Just one level down at Monarch you could be certain from the start that any AGG civ who meets a non-AGG civ will be Annoyed with them even if they have a positive diplomacy number. But at Emperor, I noticed that the Brennus and Alexander were neighbours who had border troubles and were of different religions. With a diplomatic relations factor of -2 or -3, they were generally Pleased with each other and only occasionally dipped down to the near hostile level of Cautious. One relation switch later and they are on the sort of terms where the conversation at the latest Mediaeval shindig goes something like

Brennus: Hey, I’ve noticed that you’ve got a king over there. You wouldn’t mind if you explained how this all works.
Alex: Yeah, it took us a long time to figure it all out but we finally got there a few years ago. The secret is……
Brennus: Thanks, if you ever need a favour, just ask
Alex: Well actually, I’ve been quite impressed with all these forges that you have in your cities – Greek spies?! – could you tell the secret of all this to an old friend
Brennus: No problem, Alex. In fact, why don’t we just give each other all our latest technologies because I’m a bit worried about this non-AI civ that’s on my borders.

That’s about the gist of it. In the space of about three of four turns, the two civs seemed to advance dramatically, and I could not see any evidence of trading the techs. They definitely looked like gifts.

Having discovered the new world to the east, the larger continent has a fair mix of Agg (Kublai, Ragnar, Shaka) and Non-Agg civs (Roosevelt, Saladin, Cyrus) and most of them are getting on like great friends. If the gift giving above is anything to go by, I have some worries since there is no conceivable way I can keep up with the research speed of up to 6 AIs working in a state of semi-cooperation.

To make matters, worse, if they get along fine, I can’t even ferment and sort of continental scale war to divert production and cut trading. The best I can think of is to make myself the worst enemy of one of them (Kublai is the largest) and then trade with the others to give them the “You traded with my worst enemy”.

But is this some weird feature of Warlords Emperor level that is different from previous versions and lower levels?

[DrSpike]

I don't think so - it depends on the Civs mostly and you can have peaceful games with the right ones, in Warlods or Vanilla.

Play with Shaka or Monty, they all always pissed at someone.

[smbakeresq]

I have encountered the same thing. I am not sure, but the diplomatic model may not be slanted against you, but it seems as if it definately favors other AI's.

[DrSpike]

Ah yes, that ol' chestnut.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I don't think so - it depends on the Civs mostly and you can have peaceful games with the right ones, in Warlods or Vanilla.

Play with Shaka or Monty, they all always pissed at someone.

Shaka is there. Ragnar is there. And it's one big love-fest among that other continent. Only Roosevelt and Kublai are annoyed with each other.

But there is definitely something I want to test. I get the -4 hit for trading with the enemy and I managed to get Kublai furious with me - I was rather churlish and I'm not proud of what I did but suffice to say he was very unhappy and may have been on the verge of boarding ships and sending an invasion force before he realised that his boats were not that good.

With Astronomy finished I entered into a round of trading and not a single AI got the (you traded with our worst enemy). My only brief success, if it can be called that, was to buy a trade embargo of Shaka on Saladin.

It all a rotten fix

[DrSpike]

Then perhaps it is one of those games where there is a predominant religion?

[couerdelion]

Hinduism is big on the other continent but is challenged by Confucianism so there is a little religious tension. But this is more than cancelled by the open borders, peace, trade etc bonuses that are there. And the penalties seem to be very small. At this point, Kublai has Defensive pacts with both Saladin (founder of Confucianism) and Ragnar (founder of Hinduism).

Shaka did though, decide to act the part in taking on, and crushing Roosevelt - who is now a vassal state. And the trading seems to have reduced a little now so I'm keeping science up at 100% currently and funding this with cash bombs and, with a bit of luck, Spiral Minaret and a shrine (would be two but Brennus used a Prophet for a Golden Age rather than the Buddhist shrine.

[joncnunn]

I think it's the "No tech trade mod" in the handicap xml causing this. Even on Noble level, the AI gets sells a monopoly tech to another AI at 70% of the price it would a human. It's even lower on emperor.
The two techs involved are also early enough that there hasn't been time to get a major religion + or - relationship factor yet.

[Swiss Pauli]

Isn't there a hidden 'warmonger-respect' thing between AGG AIs? I remember reading something about this (maybe in better AI), but I'm not 100% on it.

[couerdelion]

I certainly see that AGG civs have a tendency to get annoyed (for no reason) at non-AGG civs while they are pleased with other AGG civs (generally).

But my latest game sees me surrounded by Peter, Saladin, Frederick, Gandhi, Victoria and Louis – about a peaceful a bunch as you could imagine. However, apart from the religious tension between Saladin and Gandhi/Victoria there also seems to be groups of allies forming with Louis and Peter on one side and Victoria, Frederick and Gandhi on the other. Of these the only one that makes sense as being pre-programmed is Louis/Victoria to reflect Anglo-French rivalries.

It’s only 1250BC and I have already had 3 demands to close all deals with other nations.

[Tattila the Hun]

I've noticed, that everyone allways hates Mansa... Even before religious camps have been formed, everyone demands me to stop trading with him...

One thing bugs me. I've been at peace with some guy on my continent for few millenia, share religion, trade stuff and tech, are in Friendly terms... Then comes along some other guy from another continent, doesn't like either of us, and demands me to stop trading with my lifelong friend. I mean, it's stupid thing to demand! Just ad additional -1 and stop bugging me! It would be nice, if the demands had some logic. Same with someone from that other continent asking me to declare war on someone else on the continent, before astronomy. I mean, they get the "We would have nothing to gain.", or "We have enough on our hands right now.". Depending on *my* situation, they should really not get offended sometimes. If I'm at a strugle for my national existence with a superior foe, and some other civ, who I often was at war with only few decades before, asks my help in their war of conquest against my best and only friend, and I refuse, they get pissed! What the hell were they expecting?

[rah]

Im sure all of the hobson's choice types of requests are just to make sure the Human player doesn't cruise through the game peacefully. They are ridiculous and I wish there were some better responses available (even if they had no impact on the game mechanics just so I'd feel better)

Like
WTF i've been his buddy for centuries, and you, a new comer who is already annoyed with me wants me to do what. hahahahhahahah Send your F***ing troops across the pond and I'll kick their ass.

[A Fortiori]

Yeah the logic to the dumb demands is strictly gameplay. Wouldn't it be nice to have some more creative replies available?

TtH, I've also noticed Mansa having trouble playing nice with others. I think he goes a little too light on his military for his own good, 'cause I've seen him get dog-piled many times now. Sometimes with a little help from me

Cheers,
Eric

[rah]

We could maybe juice up this thread by posting responses that we'd really like to give to some of those assinine requests.

[DrSpike]

Go stick your tech up your asinine.