Vassal State

[AnteX555]

Vassal feature is good and makes the game more interesting, but I think it has one downside.

You can't realy "free" a civ if it has capitulated to someone. Example in my game I would really like to free Cyrys, my good friend, from Alexander. So I have only two options, to go to war with Alenxander, capture his cities so he loses 50% of his lands and can be free again. Or to give him cities so he can have 50% of the land which Alexender has (quite imbossible). I think there will be severe penalties for our relations with Cyrys if I go to war against him, and that is not what I want.

So I don't mind going in to war against Alexander (and his other 3 vassals), I just want to free my old friend

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by AnteX555
Vassal feature is good and makes the game more interesting, but I think it has one downside.

You can't realy "free" a civ if it has capitulated to someone. Example in my game I would really like to free Cyrys, my good friend, from Alexander. So I have only two options, to go to war with Alenxander, capture his cities so he loses 50% of his lands and can be free again. Or to give him cities so he can have 50% of the land which Alexender has (quite imbossible). I think there will be severe penalties for our relations with Cyrys if I go to war against him, and that is not what I want.

So I don't mind going in to war against Alexander (and his other 3 vassals), I just want to free my old friend

If he was your friend why did he then not capitulate to you. Did you help your friend by declaring war on his ennemy and giving him military assistance? Maybe he didn't feel enough friendship

[PValiant]

Originally posted by patcon
PV, what was your status vis-a-vis the civ who accepted your foe as a vassal? Were at peace with them? Did you immediately enter a state of peace with your former foe and have your forces removed, did you continue at war and now with the new master as well, or were you given an option?

I ask because when this has happened to me, peace was immediately declared (against my wishes) but I was able to immediately re-declare war againt my enemy.

I was at peace with them. And i cant remember but it seemed like actually the war continued and the other guy declared war one me. So i think this is stupid most of you dont, but if he can squeeze his way into a treaty where he is now defended i should be able to trick some other race into a defense pact with me while i am warring with someone else. You could do it in Civ3 i loved it. And this allows for world wars, since playing civ4 i have not seen any world wars. No one does it and it sucks. I really enjoyed seeing 3-4 races on each side fighting on all fronts.

[eris]

I had a world war in my last game, myself and my two vassals against Bismark and his four vassals. No neutral nations. I had been hammering Louis XVI, who had recently quit being my peacetime vassal. I had built up my invasion force and moved west to where Louis XVI was. During the war, Louis sold himself out to Bismark and I was in World War. Unfortunately, Bismark and all his friends were on my east boundaries. I had to push west enough to nullify Louis at my back door so I could move the invasion force east. By then, I had been enduring several assaults against my defenders. I lost a lot of troops, and got some pillaging damage, but I managed not to lose a city, although it came very close. I was ahead on tech, and midway through this long war started fielding Tanks. That did the trick. I started pounding Bismark and ignoring his allies. He lost enough area zo that his allies started leaving him. Then I triggered Domination.

World wars do happen. It may not be often, but it is possible. It may happen more often to players like me than to seriously skilled players because those players avoid these situations in the first place. For instance, I probably should have seen Bismark's rise as a threat a lot earlier and done something about it. It would have saved me serious panic. Yet again, it made for a memorable victory.

[AnteX555]

Lambiorix_be:

I don't usually have many friends in my games as I don't really care about the diplomatic scores. Anyway I considered him as my friend and I gave him many of my best troops but this doesn't count too much in the diplomatic relations as I had "traded with his worst enemy" So I didn't declare war to Alexander to assist Curys as I dind't have any troops for that (cause I had given them to curys) and it had been a suicide.

[PValiant]

Originally posted by eris
I had a world war in my last game, myself and my two vassals against Bismark and his four vassals. No neutral nations. I had been hammering Louis XVI, who had recently quit being my peacetime vassal. I had built up my invasion force and moved west to where Louis XVI was. During the war, Louis sold himself out to Bismark and I was in World War. Unfortunately, Bismark and all his friends were on my east boundaries. I had to push west enough to nullify Louis at my back door so I could move the invasion force east. By then, I had been enduring several assaults against my defenders. I lost a lot of troops, and got some pillaging damage, but I managed not to lose a city, although it came very close. I was ahead on tech, and midway through this long war started fielding Tanks. That did the trick. I started pounding Bismark and ignoring his allies. He lost enough area zo that his allies started leaving him. Then I triggered Domination.

World wars do happen. It may not be often, but it is possible. It may happen more often to players like me than to seriously skilled players because those players avoid these situations in the first place. For instance, I probably should have seen Bismark's rise as a threat a lot earlier and done something about it. It would have saved me serious panic. Yet again, it made for a memorable victory.

Ya but those are vassal states usually those are so weak they cant do much. Im talking independent empires fighting along side each other like back in civ3 i think it is something civ4 lacks

[Michlo]

Originally posted by SandMonkey
Plus, if you're at peace with someone when you become their vassal, you can break that agreement later. If you capitulate to them, you're stuck as their vassal for the entire game.

I wish this was so. My nations who capitulate keep annoying me by later going on their own. Then they usually get attacked by another and even if I try to protect them and bring them back "into the fold" they'll say things like "your nation is too far away'. I just had that with the Japanese and my culture was almost all over the map and I had an island city right next to their measly capital island.

*sigh*

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Michlo


I wish this was so. My nations who capitulate keep annoying me by later going on their own. Then they usually get attacked by another and even if I try to protect them and bring them back "into the fold" they'll say things like "your nation is too far away'. I just had that with the Japanese and my culture was almost all over the map and I had an island city right next to their measly capital island.

*sigh*

Capitulated empires only break free when you cannot prevent them from losing 50% of their territory or something like that. Or am I wrong?

[Michlo]

I thought that to be the case too but in this latest instance, the Japanese only had two tiny islands when they left me and I had been feeding them resources and technology.

*shrug* It definitely seems flawed to me.