inciting AI vs AI wars

[sjm]

Originally posted by Geronimo


oh. Can i set up a persistent alliance in the default game? by persistant I just mean that once entered it doesn't end until one or both parties elect to end it with the usual diplomatic consequences for doing so.

When setting up a custom game there's an option to enable permanent alliances. Click it, and you can then ally (with a single civ) until the end of the game. You used to be able to ally with more than one, but that doesn't work any more. However, you cannot end a permanent alliance (AFAIK).

[Geronimo]

Does your ally have the same AI difficulty penalties/bonuses as the other AIs in a given game?

[sjm]

I believe so, but I'm not sure. I don't think that they are suddenly subjected to different penalties/bonuses once you sign an alliance.

It's quite nice playing a cultural game to sign a permanent alliance and then have your partner do all the rest of the researching whilst you sit at 100% culture

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by sjm
I believe so, but I'm not sure. I don't think that they are suddenly subjected to different penalties/bonuses once you sign an alliance.

It's quite nice playing a cultural game to sign a permanent alliance and then have your partner do all the rest of the researching whilst you sit at 100% culture

so when permanent alliances are enabled the teams aren't predetermined but are setup by treaty as in normal games?

[sjm]

There are (IIRC) two options; you can make teams (from the beginning) or you can enable permanent alliances which require either communism or something else which escapes me right now (facism?).

So yeah, a permanent alliance is made in-game. You need pretty good relations with the other civ to get one. Of course some civs are more willing to team up with you than others. I've found Bismark, Cyrus, Hatsheput or Elizabeth (vanilla) good targets for a later permanent alliance. It's much harder keeping Monty or Isabella pleased

Before you can sign a permanent alliance, you'll also need to have either a common military struggle or a defensive pact (or both if one of you gets attacked along the way). You'll see a message to this effect if you move the cursor over the permanent alliance option if this is the case.

[Jaybe]

Permanent Alliances make for a volatile mix, even more than with vassal states. You could end up with a very powerful opposing block, or you could end up forming one yourself. PA means you share spaceship building, can (IRC) direct research, airlift into their cities.

Of course, your ally could start a spaceship part in a city with only 20 hammers.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Permanent Alliances make for a volatile mix, even more than with vassal states. You could end up with a very powerful opposing block, or you could end up forming one yourself. PA means you share spaceship building, can (IRC) direct research, airlift into their cities.

Of course, your ally could start a spaceship part in a city with only 20 hammers.

can your workers modify improvements around their cities? If so I imagine that 20 hammer AI city is going to be seeing several shiny new workshops and mines in it's near future.

If that's not possible how about sending a spy to sabotage the ss part production in that city?

Maybe you could offer to trade one of your cities for the offending AI SS bottelneck city?

[sjm]

You can improve your allies territory - and IMO it makes sense to do so. Even with the improved AI, a human is generally going to be better able to respond to the current situation than a computer - you're much better at prioritising than the AI.

And, furthermore, becuase you're not the AI and have improved consistently and sensibly from day 1, by the time you've researched the techs for permanent alliances, you have a whole ensemble of idle workers all set to build trade network or some other such trivial time wasting task. Put them to good use!

Your ally becomes more useful and stronger the more you support him/her. So improve their territory, garrison their cities (don't gift units, you use them much better than the AI does) whilst making the most of the AI's bonuses in return. If you go to war, help them defending any cities that are worthwhile defending.

[sjm]

As an aside, there are a couple of tricks you can use to free up a SS slot that the AI is occupying in that tundra bog hole. Go to war. If you go to war, the AI will start building military instead, and you can then build the space ship part in a decent city.

Remember though, that it's not that much of a problem if the AI is building the earlier parts in crap cities, unless those cities really won't be able to complete production by the time the last other SS part is built. That might still take a long time, what with you still having to research the necessary tech and then build the later parts. So even crap cities can complete parts on time if they are building casing

Other than that, if you're paranoid, you can switch production to space ship parts the minute you research the tech. And if you're ultraparanoid, you can either tweak your research or ask the AI to research something else, so that you research the tech first. Once you have the tech, set a city to build the part so the AI can't. You can even do this to queue the larger SS parts for a few turn until your iron works city has finished the previous part, for example. Just switch the part over when the previous part is complete.

[Jaybe]

Thanx sjm, that advice is a saver. I've only played with PAs a couple times.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Remember though, that it's not just SS parts that your partner will build. They'll start building every wonder available in their crappy cities. Meaning that neither of you will end up getting the wonder and a enemy AI will get them and the benefits.

[Diadem]

I've found that with permanent alliances, even if you get the AI to research another tech, so you are the one to finish it, it has often already started on the wonder the tech gives.

For example I get the AI to research something else while I finish research on literature. When this is done, I want to build the Great Library, but behold, my partner is already building it in another city. While *I* just researched the tech.

You do get the first-time benefits of techs when you're the first. Religion, great people, etc, but I think for the enabling of buildings etc, at the start of the turn the game just checks if your team will discover the tech this turn and then give everybody in the team the right to build the tech's units and builindgs immidiately.