Production overflow

[Chrush]

I have read some threads here already as well as the obviously pretty famous strategy paper by velocyrix, but I'm still not sure about the production overflow thing.

I've read, that it's possible to accumulate overproduction. The question is how can I use this, or is the overflow automatically assigned to the next project? Does this work with science as well?

I'd be thankful for an explanation or a link, if you please.

[ColdPhoenix]

Any excess production will automatically be carried over to the next project.

If you're building something and have 75 out of 80 hammers for it but the city produces 15 hammers per turn then you will have 10 hammers carried over. The city screen will show 25 hammers for the first turn of the next projects production.

The same thing happens with research.

[Tattila the Hun]

So, I'm wondering... Is it any good to tweak the science slider in the last few turns before something is discovered, if you don't happen to need the cash?

[Diadem]

I think there used to be overflow 'bugs' that could be exploited.

You get a discount on techs for which you have many optional prereq's or which has already been researched by many AIs. I think this discount was also applied to the overflow, even if the overflow was for a tech where you shouldn't get the discount for. But if I'm not mistaken that was fixed in one of the patches.

So no, it should no matter. For example for production overflow is counted in 'raw' hammers. If your city with 100% bonus (forge, factory, power) produces 40 hammers a turn, and is 10 hammers away from completing production, then the overflow the next turn will be 15 'raw' hammers. Your base hammer production was 20 hammers and 5 of those were used (with 100% bonus) for the 10 hammers you still needed.

If you now start on a wonder while having stone (so 200% bonus total) those 15 carried overhammers are worth 45 hammers.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
So, I'm wondering... Is it any good to tweak the science slider in the last few turns before something is discovered, if you don't happen to need the cash?

No.

[sjm]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
So, I'm wondering... Is it any good to tweak the science slider in the last few turns before something is discovered, if you don't happen to need the cash?

Whilst you don't gain any advantage from reducing the overflow, it's definitely worth fiddling with the slider in order to research important techs quickly at a deficit. It's worth running at a deficit to research certain techs - especially those that found religions, unlock important wonders/buildings or provide a free great person, and to a lesser extent some military techs in/before an big war. Once you're one turn from researching the important tech, you can lower the science rate (to still get the tech in one turn) in order to generate a little extra cash whilst retaining the same turn advantage. You can then accrue a new surplus once you start researching some lesser techs - often backfilling (what are now) cheap techs that all the AIs already have.

I beeline to techs such as code of laws or communism (for state property) at a deficit, reasoning that the financial advantage of the technology (which reduces my expenditure) will more than pay for the deficit whilst researching them. The quicker you have courthouses up and running, the higher you can raise your science slider and still break even. So researching code of laws or currency at a deficit is beneficial to your economy in the larger picture, even if you then need to drop science drastically to break even afterwards. That's not necessarily true for drama, for example. Writing is another tech that improves your economy by boosting research, and thus worth running at a deficit for. Once you've got libraries up and running, you're essentially running with the science rate up a couple of notches.

[binTravkin]

I think there used to be overflow 'bugs' that could be exploited.

One good exploit is whipping something you have a bonus for, say courthouse for an organized leader, with a good surplus and thus boosting the next un-bonused production.

[Nay]

I think its also possible to accumulate chopped overflow by setting the production to wealth or science, and chop around the city.

I once tried to speed up my research by setting production to science and chop the hamemrs to be converted into baekers, but it just stayed in the city as overflow.

Dont know if overflow decayes though... but i observed that after staying on wealth for some turns in one city while chopping for farms, i produced the jail in 1 turn.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by binTravkin

One good exploit is whipping something you have a bonus for, say courthouse for an organized leader, with a good surplus and thus boosting the next un-bonused production.

This doesn't work. The city calculates the base hammers that it needs to finish the building - ie a Courthouse with 20 hammers needed would require 10 hammers from city production with a 100% production bonus. The base hammers are then added to the base hammers in the next turn and this gets a new multiplier.

One thing to be careful about is that the overflow should not exceed the current builds hammer requirement. It's one reason why you don't whip or chop warriors or scouts.

I would also argue that there is a justification to tweak the science multiplier just before completing a tech if this tech is discovered earlier and brings immediate benefits.

[rah]

What if your city has 70 hammers and the build requires 60. You get a 10 hammer overflow.
Now let's say you keep building things that are less then 70, could this help you store hammers for working on a wonder that you almost done researching for.
At what point does it not work?

[couerdelion]

Well I guess you could use a big overflow to get a headstart on a wonder build. In the same way, you might store up hammers by pre-chopping and perhaps also waiting for the discovery of Mathematics to finish the chop too.

But getting a large overflow and applying this to a wonder will not change the number of hammers you need for all the builds you want. A wonder with a +100% bonus and costing 400 hammers will still "cost" you 200 hammers while a building with no mutiplier and costing 100 hammers will simply cost 100 hammers.

An overflow from a building with a large multiplier will lose the benefit of the multiplier on a building without that bonus.

[rah]

Yes, I always prechop forests before math if my workers have nothing better to do.

I'm not as concerned about cheating the bonus like that.
I'm just interested in storing hammers anticipating needing a lot of them for a wonder. Kind of like hording caravans in CIV II. But not anywhere near as effective.

[frenzyfol]

What difference does maths make to chop?

[trev]

Maths increases the hammer yield from a chop by 50%

[trev]

There is a bug that can be used to hurry wonders, I have never used it, but I have noticed that if you leave the build queue empty in a city, the hammers accumulate until a building or unit is placed into the build queue, therefore if you leave it empty say 20 turns before you learn the tech required for a wonder, when the tech is learnt, a 20 turn advantage can be gained in building the wonder when the tech is learnt. I have found this can be used to build a regular building quickly when I have left the queue accidentally empty, never tested it on a wonder though, but cannot see any reason why it would not work there either.