A Better AI.

[DaveV]

I encountered a strange bug with the January 1 vanilla build, and probably should have posted it here instead of this thread.

[CreepyD]

I installed this AI the other day, it's excellent!

- Increased the number of defenders trained and used in interior cities.
- Increased the weighting on needed defenders in the presence of hostile units.

These 2 sound good, in the game I just played a huge powerful enemy had cities at the back with only 2 units in. I sent 2 transports around and instantly destroyed a major city on the coast before he saw me coming (pangea map).
With 6 units on land, he still didnt increase defence in nearby cities.

All in all my first game was a far more enjoyable game and lots of surprises from the AI. Played on Prince (usually win quite easy on prince) and struggled to keep up with 1 opponent.
I even struggled to take out an opponent less advanced than me using my usual tactics where I usually walk over em with very few units - I lost em all

[joncnunn]

Looking at the above post by CreepyD, perhaps instead the AI should simply be taught that a costal city is NOT an interor city no matter how far inside cultural boundaries it is. (I'd add cities up to 3 tiles away from the coast for good measure since those are potientally 2 moves away from the sea post Knights)

Two units on a truely interor city would actually seem to be one more than is really needed (unless running H.R and using the unit for happiness purposes)

Also, if possible the AI should only use the most ancient out of date units with little or no experence in truely interor cities.

[MWAAAHAAA]

Some strange experiences with the 1/8 build.

I had this war going on with Ghenghis Khan and at a certain point he suddenly declares war on me and sends over his huge stack (~50 units, mainly catapults, but also of units towards my capital. As I was waging a war with England most of my units were somewhere else and I had nothing to defend myself with. The capital was almost empty (4 units left, longbows and crossbows).
So Ghenghis arrives at my capital and instead of blasting the place to pieces, he just sits there, bombards my defense bonus to 0% and then just seems to wait for me, gather my forces, and smash his army... which is exactly what happened afterward.
In the screenshot I already managed to get some reinforcements into my capital and already messed up his stack a bit.

He could have captured or destroyed my capital and some of the surrounding cities had Genghis taken appropriate action.

[Harrier UK]

I had a simillar experience with the TR mod that uses a version of the AI - mod component.

I had a city in a choke point and on the cultural border with 13 mixed units, plus 10 more just outside the city.. The AI moved about 60 units (45 were cannons) next to my city.

Each turn. it attacked about 10 times then stopped. Probably because of its losses.

I counter attacked - then moved units in and out of the city.

After about 8 turns, I wiped out the attackers.

If it had continued the initial attack - though losing units it would have taken the city. My heartland would then have been left open to the AI.


Maybe the AI needs to calculate the average unit strength in a city and then check if it is being reduced after each attack. If it is reduced continue attacking - if you have enough units.

Myself, I will often sacrifice a few units - just to bring the AIs defence strength down. THen originally weaker units can take the city.

The new AI at the moment sometimes seems to only do half the job - giving the human player extra EPs.

This is not a criticisum - just a casual observation.

Overall the changes are great - feels like a brand new game.

[Forwarn45]

I am playing Monarch with aggressive AI and there is definitely a huge difference in AI agression. Luckily for me, I ended up with an island not too far from some of the AI's - so it's good for trading but defensible. I elected to go for a cultural victory given my situation and an early religion (as I was Isabella). I should win. In addition to warring with each other (and occassionally taking cities), the AI's do occassionally declare war on me. But they have confined this to sending a few triremes / caravels (more recently) my way, which I have defeated pretty easily. I haven't seen a real invasion fleet. Perhaps for a future version - it would be good to adjust the diplomacy / naval war AI in this situation.

[ben04]

In my last game the AI even beat me! Well it was my error because I negligated my army but it's the first time it does that to me on Prince.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MWAAAHAAA
... 50 units, mainly catapults, but also of units towards my capital.

Yes, the AI seems to be overdoing the bombard units. I've had games where it would send out a bunch of them against me, protected by only a single other unit. Once that was gone, it was fairly easy to destroy the rest of the stack. It needs to diversify more, not just use stacks of Catapults etc.

[Saurus]

Originally posted by Willem


Yes, the AI seems to be overdoing the bombard units. I've had games where it would send out a bunch of them against me, protected by only a single other unit. Once that was gone, it was fairly easy to destroy the rest of the stack. It needs to diversify more, not just use stacks of Catapults etc.

Actually attacking with mainly only Catapults or, in particular, Trebuchets, should work pretty well if the defender is generally weaker than the attacker.
A defender that is generaly weaker than a attacker will often be able to whitstand an attack from a mixed stack due to specielized defenders.
However, VS a stack of siege weapons there are no specielized defenders.
So Unless the defender has enough troops stationed at the exact right place when the attacker attacks, then just a few surviving Trebuchets should be enough to take out the enitre defens of any city in a just few shots.
Cats in particular ar also difficult to destroy during early game with only the Horse Archer beeing cabable of this.
(Just try to beat a stack of Cats if you have no horses....)

[DrSpike]

Yeah the AI used to underuse siege but sometimes it looks as if they overcompensated in 2.08. It's not always though, I guess it depends on resources to an extent.

[CreepyD]

In my current game, I've had a similar experience to Harrier UK.
I'm playing on Prince with aggressive AI, have had 2 ai's declare war on me numerous times but I have a tech lead so am able to hold them at bay just about. Their units have by far outnumbered me the whole game.

A few times it has started attacking a city, lost about 3-4 units in a row then stopped attacking when it had at least another 10 units at full stringth to attack with. With the amount of catapults and collateral damage being done I would have lost the city if it had carried on.
As it didn't my cannons were able to counter attack and I took down the whole stack in 2-3 turns.

Too cautious I think, especially with the amount of units the AI seems to accumulate

[Willem]

Originally posted by Saurus



Actually attacking with mainly only Catapults or, in particular, Trebuchets, should work pretty well if the defender is generally weaker than the attacker.
A defender that is generaly weaker than a attacker will often be able to whitstand an attack from a mixed stack due to specielized defenders.
However, VS a stack of siege weapons there are no specielized defenders.
So Unless the defender has enough troops stationed at the exact right place when the attacker attacks, then just a few surviving Trebuchets should be enough to take out the enitre defens of any city in a just few shots.
Cats in particular ar also difficult to destroy during early game with only the Horse Archer beeing cabable of this.
(Just try to beat a stack of Cats if you have no horses....)

The issue I was trying to point out was not the number of Cats etc. but the lack of defenders for them. In one game, a civ sent out several stacks of Cats against me, one after the other, each one protected by only a single Horse Archer. It was a fairly simple task to eliminate the Horse Archer, leaving the stack of Cats as easy pickings for my units. The stacks didn't even get close to any of my cities in order to do any damage. If the AI would have included a mix of defenders, it may have had a chance.

[Tattila the Hun]

Here's something...



New York, Washington's second biggest city, houses half of his fleet and few fighters, and no groundtroops whatsoever. I could capture and raze this metropolis with an axeman... Infantry sufficed. A surprise amphibious assault.

[MWAAAHAAA]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Yeah the AI used to underuse siege but sometimes it looks as if they overcompensated in 2.08. It's not always though, I guess it depends on resources to an extent.

I should've mentioned that my post concerned the vanilla 1.61 version, so I do not think that the behavior is 2.08 specific.

[Dis]

I've always felt the ai built to many seige weapons. It pisses me off, because I get my ass kicked by them. Even the most advanced units cannot stand up to inferior units with seige weapons.

Trebuchets are the worst. Usually defended by a couple high strength units in forest terrain that I can't even touch with cavalry.

I just don't like it from a realism standpoint. What army is 90% artillery style weapons?