A Better AI.

[Blake]

A commando pre-engineering can't move far. For example if he starts out of sight (over some hills) then he can move 1 tile, adjacant to borders, he can move another tile, into their borders. There, half his movement is gone. He has to retreat now, or is at risk of dying.

It's only post-engineering that a commando presents some threat. There's this wonder on Engineering which increases worker speed and it's really popular because workers are really important around about engineering <- sarcasm.

The only truly dangerous unit would be a Commando Mobility mounted unit and I suspect you would find that the old AI's workers would be every bit as catchable by such a unit, altough you wouldn't be able to get the workers out alive.

I think I'd rather spend my GG on a Medic III or in cities and I certainly wouldn't have the autoworkers avoid any tile within 5 tiles of their borders on the offchacne some crazed player created a highly specialized worker ganking machine (remember the AI isn't allowed to maphack to see such a unit coming).

[Blake]

Originally posted by Nacht
Hi Blake, first of all thanks for putting all this effort into improving the most important part of civ, the AI

I have problems compiling your code though. The 2.08 source compiles fine but with your files I get five times:

"error C2039: 'AI_calculateGoldenAgeValue': is not a member of 'CvPlayerAI'"

all in CvUnitAI.cpp. CvPlayerAI indeed doesn't have a calculateGoldenAge member neither does Cvplayer from which it inherits. And your distribution doesn't contain 'CvPlayer.h' or 'CvPlayerAI.h'. So what am I doing wrong?

Oopsies!
I've uploaded a new source archive with the missing files.

You can also use SVN to ensure you're getting the latest files.

[Nacht]

Originally posted by Blake


Oopsies!
I've uploaded a new source archive with the missing files.

You can also use SVN to ensure you're getting the latest files.

Thanks again

It was rather suspicious that calculateGoldenAgeValue only appeared in CvUnitAI

[Zoolooman]

Originally posted by Blake
Another topic: Tech Trading.
I have not changed this other than making them put a higher priority on Alphabet (in one monarch game I played every AI had alphabet by 1AD, I didn't, yikes, but that's an exception not the rule). The AI's have generally far better research power. With my newer mod, not only do they have the stronger economy, they can also leverage gold boni into research, what's more they no longer squander Great People, meaning they might use that mid game GS to pop Education and thus win liberalism rather than wasting him on a GA, the AI who bags the Economics GM will probably use him for a Cash Bomb, resulting in another burst of research. As far as I can tell, most of the AI's higher tech speed is from their sheer researching speed moreso than any change in tech trading - they just really do reserach that fast. My AI seems to have reached the point where on Monarch they research faster than old Emperor AI's, I'm very reliant on tech trading tricks I used to do on Emperor, like Compass for one.

Fair enough, but the combination of faster research and AI trading preferences has left many players "in the cold," so to speak.

Before the improvements, the AI's stingy trading personalities were required. If they weren't stingy, the player could research one expensive tech and trade for an era's worth of technologies plus gold.

After the improvements, the AI's stinginess, which was designed to keep the game "fairer" between the AI and the player, is now detrimental to trades with the player. In a recent game, I researched Education. The AI Civs, both pleased with me, would only trade Education for any tech that was worth 2/3rds of Education or less. After I had scooped up a round of trades, the AI's then turned to one another and fairly traded Education with similarly valued technologies.

In effect, the entire world was biased against trading with me, even though the world was now capable of teching at a similar rate to me.

In the future, could the "stinginess" of the AI be reduced in order to fix this balance issue?

Edit: Or the AI could become much stingier regarding trades with one another.

[Jaybe]

Zoolooman, what difficulty level were you playing? Wouldn't want to make the AI civs trade techs "fairly" if you were playing a high difficulty.

I liked your "in the cold" phrase. Aka "in the dust."

[Zoolooman]

This was merely Monarch. I know that most people consider it a relatively easy difficulty, but after applying these AI upgrades, it feels like I've jumped up to Emperor. I've consistently been left behind in technology, and in some games, leaders like Mansa have blazed on so far ahead that I've simply had to quit.

For this reason, I've also tried playing a few Prince games. In my memory, Prince was VERY easy, but when I play it now, I see AI empires which expand faster than my own and still manage to tech much faster as well. I eventually pass them up (or easily conquer them in war), but it feels like the AI is now automatically a faster researcher than myself, even though I micromanage and optimize my research to a high degree.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Zoolooman
This was merely Monarch. I know that most people consider it a relatively easy difficulty, ...

Monarch is 2 levels above the "even" Noble level. Just because many skilled players state that they play on Monarch or above ....

I was a Noble player and was getting stomped with v208. My current Warlord-level game is familiar territory, mostly similar in feel to my old Nobles.

[player1]

Well, the thing is that AI is now good enough that some of the effects that where visible only on higher difficulties can now be seem on lower difficulties too.

I guess that just mean going down a level or two, in order to find new sweet spot.

[Saurus]

I just played a game at Emperor difficulty with the new, better A.I and I have to say that I´m very impressed. A.I is truly choping wonders and spamming workers. This combined with the A.I strating bonuses makes the A.I a very, very formadible opponent.

What particulary impressed me (though it could have been coinsidence also) was when A.I found a city very close to mine. I had both Ivory and Horses just next to my own city. Now A.I chops the Stonehenge and in just a few turns, A.I swallows even the squares just next to my city including my horse and my ivory.

There is one possible exploit here however.
A.I starts with a free worker and by the time the human player founds his second city, A.I already has many workers and they seem to enjoy working in stacks.
During my game, by the time I had only 2 cities and 1 worker the A.I was chopping his stonehenge with no less than 6(!) workers. (in 2 different stacks) bordering my city directly.

Since A.I was not prepared for a war and I had a few archers in my cities for defensive purposes, I could easily have captured ALL of the 6 workers!
Then sue for peace a few turns later.
If one can sucsessfully capture a whole stack of
A.I workers early on, then the rest of the game will be heavily affected.

[Solver]

Yeah, don't be afraid to play on a lower difficulty level now. The new Noble should really feel like Prince before...

[V. Soma]

Yes, it is important - would be - important for the AI to take care of workers...
But I think Blake knows that too and is working on that...

[=DrJambo=]

It's strange, but I always thought that the AI needed improvements to the military aspect far more than to its ability to speed through the tech tree...

I am a Monarch level player and I usually find I'm behind in tech in the mid game. I start off well and finish well (mainly because I've beaten up on some AI by then).

I've never liked the way the AI will freely tech trade with other AI while at the same time they'll be extremely reluctant to partake in good deals with the human. My hope is that one day the AI will be more adept at warring and be more likely to instigate inter-AI wars, creating more AI-AI vassalizations and thus greater obstacles for the human.

Most games I see now (in 2.08) seem to be AI builder affairs, which are rather boring tech races. If you as the human don't go to war, then you can forget about beating the AI in a builder game at the harder levels. The thing is, the improvement to the AI tech rate is making players drop levels, whereas the military game hasn't really changed at all. In my case I was a Monarch player. With 2.08 it's now extremely hard to keep up with the AI science rate at Monarch, but if I drop to Prince, the military game is too easy....

[Diadem]

Well the worker stealing issue should be addressed. Especially if they start putting stacks of 6 workers at your borders - that's just too tempting not to attack.

Imho the AI should simply put an archer over their workers in the early game. Not sure how long 'early' should last - but until the time that workers aren't that critical anymore.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Solver
Yeah, don't be afraid to play on a lower difficulty level now. The new Noble should really feel like Prince before...

Yep. I can't beat the AI at noble anymore... They keep going far and far ahead in techs AND power… I feel so stupid!
Well, actually I'm not such a good player, and the patch just confirmed that… I’ll have to play on a lower level now, or I’ll be beat every time… No big deal, but no fun either.
I don’t care if I feel diminished, humiliated, mortified, shamed and embarrassed now that I can’t play “fair” with AI… So what? I’ll play on kid’s level, jeez... Thanks, Blake!

Just kidding…

Seriously, you did a great great job in the patch, Blake. The AI is smarter now, faster and dangerous, a real challenge! And I'll give to your mod a try, for sure. Thanks a lot!

[Aro]

Originally posted by Aro

I’ll have to play on a lower level now, or I’ll be beat every time…

Well, didn't work. I don't want three techs at start and a settler in the first hut…

And that’s what I get on warlord level. In fact, we need a new level now, between warlord and noble... A mod, maybe...

Oh, well... I think I just should improve my game skills...