Warlords Team Democracy Game?

[Beta]

Originally posted by Thomas Hobbes

I suspect this is 'your wit' everybody* is talking about.

If so, then .

Thomas - I hope you took it in good spirit. It was clearly intended as such. We have not met yet on Apolyton, and I would not want to get off on the wrong foot. This thread was indeed an inauspicious (ie poor) place to meet.

Good to meet you.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Beta

I am going to start by apologizing to Plato, CM, and Paddy. I was wrong to bring up past events as I did. Those events contributed, along with a pile of RL matters, to me leaving Apolyton for awhile. It is clear that there are still some raw nerves on both sides, and my bringing up the matter, quite out of context, did nothing but touch on those nerves. So again, sorry for raising it, and for a number of the related comments I made.

Hey Beta,

Sorry for showing my tail as well. It is indeed still a tough subject these many months later. However, I would really like to work together to put this behind us and move forward as one community. Let's bury the hatchet. (and not in each others scalp. )

/me offers his hand to Beta

[Beta]

Thanks Plato.

I offer my hand as well.

[FeMme]

That's right, kiss and make up


All's well that end's well

[E_T]

Ahhhh, their so cute....

/me now goes to take his Insulin

E_T

[Kloreep]

Jesus ****ing Christ.

This seemed like I sane discussion when I left. Did everyone get Mad Turkey Disease over Thanksgiving? ****.

I suppose I should first declare where I stand. To Locutus & admins: I appreciate your position that this is your site and you must do as you see fit, but as an Apolytonian, I would encourage you to permit these forums so long as the players wish to get on with this game. I posted my objections mainly with the intent to advice people against doing this DG so soon; given that it seems to have gone largely unheeded by the interested players, I see no reason the Apolyton administration should stand in their way. That is my own view, though; I of course cannot dictate to the government if you have your own concerns. I personally think, though, that poly should set up any DG with this sort of enthusiastic backing. It may be folly - I frankly think it is, particularly should a set-up besides 1 vs. 1 be used - but I would say it is their folly to pursue if they wish. If DGs must pass more than a quick inspection to see that they will at least be alive at birth, then this site is going to be a bit too constrictive IMHO.

That done with, I would have gotten to the tonguelashing, but it seems things have already calmed down. I would just like to post an editted version anyway...
A number of you seem to have already given up hope and are declaring that you are taking this DG elsewhere. Which is always the players' prerogatives, but I find this sad. Have you listened to Locutus? A decision is not made; the admins are still making up their minds. I see a number of posters reacting to the announcement that this DG may not be supported by Apolyton as if it is actually a statement that this DG will not be supported by poly. Give the admins a break. Wait to find out what their decision actually is before reacting to it. And if that decision is ultimately to not give this DG Apolyton fora, you know what? It is their decision. It would be a mistake in my view and in yours, but it is theirs to make.

Which brings me to those attacking those against a Warlords DG. I can only speak for myself, but I was not trying to stop this DG from happening by bringing an external stop; I was rather trying to advise you trying to start it that, from my point of view, it is not yet time, and it will hurt other DGs. A heads up. Now, some other people here are taking stronger stances re: this DG should not happen, but please realize that they do have their points and are only trying to hold off the lingering death that they've witnessed after the start of other new DGs. Also please realize that those on this side do not have the final say, the admins do, and they have not made up their minds.

Originally posted by Zoid
Ok, if Poly won´t host it. I´m sure some other site will. I´m contacting the admins at CGN to see if they can host it. Frankly I´m amazed and very sad at the hostility and mean pettiness shown here by other DG´ers and staff. I´ve been a loyal member of this community for almost 5 years and I´ve only had good experiences. It´s not so anymore... This hurts! It really does...

You obviously haven't played enough multi-team DGs if you haven't seen hostility and mean pettiness here yet.

I hope you are not too turned off by this, though. There's not much here aside from some old C3CDG wounds mixed with an out-of-proportion response to the admin announcement that fora are not guaranteed (in which I must frankly include you; why the rush to CGN? Tis up to you and the other players, but you have not been denied a poly DG yet).

I see the sequence of events as this: A few people post advising to hold off on a Warlords DG. Locutus posts and says that because of this advice, the admins are considering whether or not to create fora for the DG - nothing's decided but they won't be doing so automatically. At this point, merry hell breaks loose as people assume various unreasonable things about the admins' decisions and what affects them.

I think that's been pulled back in now...

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
ET others lives are just that, none of your business !

So far as I can tell E_T is mainly trying to help others avoid the pits he's fallen into. You don't want to listen to him, fine, but it seems in poor taste to me to knock him for that.

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
The players signed up for this have agreed on a fast paced two team game, it really does not matter what the noteable few feel think or do, the question remains just who is this site for ? The noteable few or the great many that come here to play games ???

As has been said, this does affect others, and more than a few. However, I agree with you that this game should go forward, that it is ultimately up to the players who want to do it, regardless of effect on other DGs.

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
This sucks big time of hypocrisy and hidden agendae, im out of here the smell is just too bad......

I agree with Locutus, I would like to see you make an actual accusation if you are going to throw such words out.

Originally posted by Diadem
I am amazed.

You're not alone. Though perhaps for different reasons given the rest of your post.

Originally posted by Diadem
Unless I missed a recent amendment to the constitution, I think I have a right to not play the vanille civ4 demogames.

In fact I am quite sure I have this right, and I must insist on using it.

I am not hurting the demogames by not playing them. I am doing nothing against them. I simply do not play them. Calling this 'hurting them' only proves that you have a very ****ed up definition of the word 'hurt'.

I'm sorry if you feel I meant you personally would be responsible for damage to the C4DG. I did not mean to imply such personal responsibility.

I'd like to extend this to others, like nugog, who think I am directing this at any one person. I do not mean to point a finger at anyone and say "You!

Deserter! You've abandoned the C4DG for the Warlords DG, haven't you?" or "You don't know how to manage your time!" Rather I mean to point to my past experiences of overall tendencies. Regardless of what happens to each individual, the whole tends to be reduced a bit by new DGs. And the annoying thing is, in DGs, the whole cannot help but affect the individual experience.

Originally posted by Diadem
It does not matter if we, those who want this demogame, play other demogames or not. That is our own decision. Even if we stop playing other demogames because we like this one better that is still our own decision.

All quite true.

Originally posted by Diadem
Arguiing over this is complete bull****. Our game does not hurt other demogames for any sensible definition of the word 'hurt'. If other demogames loose players to us, that just means we are more interesting. That's a good thing. It means more players will be playing a game they really like.

Fair enough I suppose. Should another Civ4 expansion come out and kill the warlords DG, though, I will be interested to see if you continue to see DGs on a site as being so unconnected.

Originally posted by Diadem
The question is just: Does Apolyton want to host our game for us?

Considering that we are all valuable and active members of the community and the very reason for Apolyton's existence is to service the community, I do not see how the answer to the above question can possible be 'no'.

Just because a few people think it is a bad idea does not mean it should be stopped if it has enough momentum to start. Its members then shoulder the responsibility of keeping it going, just as I think the members of the C4DG are ultimately the ones responsible for keeping it going.

Originally posted by Diadem
If despite this the answer does turn out to be 'no', this can only be because of some perverse power-games by the Apolyton leadership, or people close to them. I'd be very disappointed in this site if that happened.

Please don't impugn people's motives so.

If you claim that this DG will not affect the C4DG a single bit, you are wrong. If you say that there is not even the vague possibility that this DG will noticeably damage C4DG's activity, my experience says you are wrong; granted that experience does not count for much, and granted it is only a possibility, but please do not dismiss it as a ****ed up definition of words like 'damage.'

[Paddy]

Kloreep,

thanks for you in depth post

to me it all came down to a few simple points

1. a group a regular civ players wanted to start a warlords 2 team demo game

2. most of us are over the age of 21, and hold responsibility for our own actions

3. when we asked for a forum at the site that we mainly gather at we were told to wait

4. a discussion took place, that became at best called an arguement, that start to disintergrate

5. the actual people that started this whole idea just wanted to enjoy a game

6. an idea to just go play the game elsewhere and thus stop the entire issue from becoming a feast for some who have not moved on was put forward, that is play it at another site

7. that option was put into action, and the game is being set up

gamers to play civ, their game of choice

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Kloreep

You obviously haven't played enough multi-team DGs if you haven't seen hostility and mean pettiness here yet.

I hope you are not too turned off by this, though. There's not much here aside from some old C3CDG wounds mixed with an out-of-proportion response to the admin announcement that fora are not guaranteed (in which I must frankly include you; why the rush to CGN? Tis up to you and the other players, but you have not been denied a poly DG yet).

Hehe, I haven´t been in any DG´s on this site yet. Which is why I´ve been spared the darker side of Poly so to speak But as Paddy says all we wanted to do was to play a game at our favourite Civ site. This was, if not shot down, severly criticized by staff and other players that were not part of our merry little gang of hopefuls. We then decided to set up the game at a site that didn´t patronise us. Did we overreact? Possibly, I´m not sure Locutus meant to be patronising in telling us we didn´t know what was best for us (but maybe the elevated staus of the new co-ownership have given him hubris )

Much of this could´ve been avoided if the reaction to our request had been phrased in a more delicate manner. But what is done is done, the game is afoot at CGN with almost the whole gang present.

Personally I´ve put this behind me and I will gladly join a Warlords DG when one is set up on this site, others are not so soon to forgive. Some are still very upset. I´ve no doubt that this will eventually go away but until then...

[Locutus]

Okay, guys. We've discussed the matter internally, taking into account all the arguments pro and con that have been raised in this thread and the other one and have decided that we *will* most definitely support a Warlords DG at this time.

Of course, with a game already set up on CGN you guys will have to figure out for yourselves if you still want to set up the exact same format that's running there here as well or if you want to go for something different, but that's your decision to make and we'll support whatever you guys want. Discuss it and once a decision has been reached let me know so I can create the necessary forums and civgroups and everything.

[Metaliturtle]

yeAh1!!

Team Banana-Medicated Powder enlist here!
1. Metaliturtle

[Metaliturtle]

For starters, what about a Warlords Team Democracy Game forum so we can do team recruitment/game setup/ other cool stuff.

[conmcb25]

Probably need to get a forum so this stuff can be discussed.

Lets try to get something that would be quicker to finish. If someone could do this pitboss style with maybe a 48 or 72 hour timer (so you can get input from the team) it would help the game move along a lot quicker and maybe keep peoples interests over the long term.

Just an idea.


Thanks Locutus BTW

[Diadem]

Hmm, another warlords game. We haven't even started the one on CGN yet

I wouldn't mind another one I guess. But it'd have to have a different format. Of course we don't know what format CGN has yet ... Tricky, tricky.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Metaliturtle
For starters, what about a Warlords Team Democracy Game forum so we can do team recruitment/game setup/ other cool stuff.

[Locutus]

http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=304