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  • XP2 idea: Merchant Navies

    So, people have been toying with ideas for trade, suggesting that XP2 should be trade-focused, etc., but most of the ideas I read involved large overhauls of the system that would be more appropriate for Civ6.

    Then there've been threads on how the naval aspect of the game needs to be improved, and I've agreed with the premise, but, as a warmonger, my ideas have been almost exclusively military; coming off the back of the release of a warmonger-themed expansion, this isn't particularly useful.

    Well, here's a trade-themed naval improvement idea: merchant shipping. It's been a significant in history (think gold-laden Spanish galleons, WW2-era supply convoys, etc.).

    I envision something along the lines of the Civ2 caravan unit, except that it goes on water. It could carry shields ("hammers" ), or perhaps commerce or food, the yield of which would increase as the distance it traveled increased, or even if the origin continent has access to a resource to which the destination continent doesn't. To prevent exploits, perhaps it should require that the origin and destination cities are not connected by cultural influence, or are on different continents, or something. But the benefit should be large enough that it's worth the players time and energy to build fleets of them and send them across the oceans. I'm not sure if the benefit should accrue only to the destination city (so if you're supplying an ally, you don't get anything except his increased ability to fight for you) or not.

    But they should be pirate-able (if that's a word). Other civs should have an incentive to seek out your treasure-laden vessels and attack them. Perhaps we could see the Privateer return for this purpose. So, you'd want to defend them well.

    Can you see it? U-boat wolf packs vs. destroyer escorts? Mercenary privateers vs. pissed off Civs that can't do anything to you for it?
    THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
    AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
    AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
    DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

  • #2
    I'd love for anything that would actually make me want to build a navy and take to the seas. As it is, I really don't use navies much.
    The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
    "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
    "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
    The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

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    • #3
      never use navies? Play on the more water intensivce maps where you have to sail to take people over.

      Oh, and I found that subs actually can be quite useful weapon platforms in CIV.

      sparky

      EDIT:
      I guess I can't move the thread off topic by the 3rd post. so, back to it. I'm not sure how I feel about a merchant navy. I think in general it is a good idea, but I'm not ure how to impliment. I too would like to see the pirate come back. Perhaps it could be something where we could see trade routes like on the map and then position warships or pirates to take away from that trade route. Then the country that is loosing money would ahve to investigate to find out... what do you think?

      sparky

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      • #4
        That doesn't sound too bad, but is actually one of those things that wouldn't be very fun in gameplay. If you have to build those units and send them, that's micromanagement. Which isn't too bad in itself, unless you'd be building 40 such ships per game. Using those ships to create CtP-style routes sounds fun, but it's actually a huge investment. Therefore, these routes would have to be pretty powerful. That, in turn, will make civs without them stuffed, and force everyone to do the same thing.
        Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
        Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
        I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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        • #5
          check ut my idea i put in the edit....


          what do you think? it borrows a little bit from Axis and Allies

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          • #6
            Maybe XP2 could include some kind of naval trade system that worked on its own -- you just choose to advocate resources to it and your colonists go off and trade, explore, pillage, etc.

            Maybe a new East India Trading Company wonder could amplify its effect.
            The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
            "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
            "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
            The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

            Comment


            • #7
              I wasn't envisioning CtP-style routes, that's too much of a departure from Civ's model. More like a caravan unit.
              THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
              AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
              AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
              DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LordShiva
                I wasn't envisioning CtP-style routes, that's too much of a departure from Civ's model. More like a caravan unit.
                Trade fleet unit perhaps? Maybe stick on a couple of conuistadors...
                The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

                Comment


                • #9
                  Actually you were envisioning CtP-style routes that are created by a Caravan-style unit. If you have pirateable routes between cities that provide some benefit, that's a CtP-style route.
                  Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                  Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                  I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Solver
                    Actually you were envisioning CtP-style routes that are created by a Caravan-style unit. If you have pirateable routes between cities that provide some benefit, that's a CtP-style route.
                    What do you think would be most enjoyable in actual implementation, Solver?
                    The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                    "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                    "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                    The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you have tradeships, they would have to provide either one-time benefits (arrives to give you X amount of gold/hammers/whatever), or a fixed-time benefit (provides benefit for Y turns). Anything else would turn out to be more boring through micromanagement than actually fun in gameplay.

                      What *might* work is something like ships that can be sent to foreign coastal cities for a temporary GPT boost. This would have to work in conjunction with pirates - that is, severely increased Barbarian activity on water, with Frigates, for example. That would give you a reason to protect those ships.

                      Or, to make navies more useful, another option would be blocades, where a civ's overseas trade (resources/GPT) is blocked if you block all coastal cities. That would make having a defensive navy crucial in a war.
                      Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                      Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                      I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What about a naval great person type?
                        Great Explorer, maybe? Like Columbus, Magellan, etc.
                        Adds monetary and settlign bonuses, or something.
                        The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                        "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                        "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                        The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A Privateer-promotion for naval units...
                          I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Solver
                            Actually you were envisioning CtP-style routes that are created by a Caravan-style unit. If you have pirateable routes between cities that provide some benefit, that's a CtP-style route.
                            By pirateable, I meant, you take your unit and attack his merchant ship unit as its traveling.
                            THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                            AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                            AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                            DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              An old idea I posted which requires some management of trade routes but without the addition of new units. Even poor micromanagement would still allow trade routes via the navies of friendly AIs. Micromanagement for this idea is limited to stationing units in one place and leaving them in position.

                              I'm not sure about creating bonus trade routes on top of the ones that already exist or having to do micromanagement to create foreign trade routes in the first place. Having an active merchant navy would mean having to manage both a merchant navy and the protecting military ships at once.
                              Last edited by Thedrin; October 16, 2006, 16:39.
                              LandMasses Version 3 Now Available since 18/05/2008.

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