Any good Civ 4 Players on this board?

[LordShiva]

I loved that thread. Enigma_Nova at his finest :reminisce:

Anyone have a save of SLD's loss?

[MasterDave]

I have been playing a lot of multiplayer almost since the game released last year, and I think that I am pretty good (I probably win about half of my lobby games with 5-8 players). However, I am not arrogant enough to say that I am world class or anything. I do not play on the ladder, and I really do not like their format much (130 turns, score leader after that), as it does favor an RTS rushing style over building a strong economy.

I will say that from my experiences in the Saturday game, Dominae is consistently better than I am in both rushing and booming (building a huge economy and an overwhelming force). The only time I have seen Dominae go down in one of these games was when getting triple teamed.

There are several members of our Saturday group who are of a similar skill level to me, and we very often have very competitive and interesting games (not just Chariot rushes and the usual cheese that dominates ladder play).

I am "MasterDave" on the board, and I will happy to take on the original poster, if that is his intent.

[rah]

Ditto on Dominae. and MD isn't a hack.
I still have plenty to learn, but I'm not awful.

That's the beauty of MP. It teaches humility. The game has been out for quite a while. I read the threads, practice whenever I have time, and still need to learn to compete with the likes of Dominae. But damnit, I will learn

And as MD has insinuated, the more the players, the more the diplomatic part of the game playes into it. A whole new level of strat in an MP game. We have all learned to manipulate the AI most of the time. With people, it's much more entertaining.


and a shameless add for others to join our saturday games. the more the merrier.

[Addled Platypus]

in the corner of rah

compared to how I used to play and rank in civ3 (SP an MP)

I have made strides in civ4, thanks to many Apolytoners help

maybe I will hit the top when civ10 comes out

[Tokyo Sexwale]

I love that thread... still funny on the second read through. Man, all that fronting just to end up looking like a right spaztoid. What a loser.

[fed1943]

I never played MP, but I would like to see one game to learn, if

possible.

Is it like a fast PBEM? Or a map chat room with diferent fogs for each

player? Or?

Best regards,

[Dominae]

Top ladder players are very very good, I can attest to that (they can attest to that too, and do so repeatedly - I'm generalizing, of course). However they do tend to play the same settings over and over, so much so that those game types are now considered the litmus test for skill on the ladder, despite the fact that they're just preferences. I've seen very good ladder players completely unable to adapt to original map settings (or things like Barbs).

MrGameTheory does specify "any settings", but how far is he really willing to take that? In particular, I'm interested in options like turn timer speed, or even PBEM play. I think that the more you slow the game down, the more "good players" you will find on these boards. What fast MP teaches you is to think/play fast, and this requires a fair amount of habituation. But habituation does not necessarily imply skill, especially in a strategy game. If the Slow turn timer were the norm in ladder games, I would be a lot better, relatively speaking.

What MrGameTheory is looking for non-ladder MP players that believe they're better than laddererites. I hope no one bites, because it's an unfair challenge. For reasons stated above, I think you have to be on the ladder for a while to get used to the environment and become competitive. Why not then simply invite players to the ladder, instead of throwing down the gauntlet to unprepared opponents?

[Solver]

Dominae's absolutely right. I have played very little Civ4 MP post-release, but I can attest to being quite terrible at it. I perform nowhere near as well as in SP, and can end up being overran militarily early on. I find that this is mainly because, with fast or blazing timers, I don't have enough time to carefully look at what my cities are doing or sometimes even not enough time to figure out the best location for my next city.

I haven't played any such games, but I'm sure that if the settings in a MP game approached those in a SP game, I would be better. Not that I'm a great SP player, but certainly far better at it than MP.

[Bobby Chicken]

Civ isn't designed for multiplayer. Simple as that. And it's definitely not designed to be played on quick with 130 turn games. I don't know why you would want to do the ladder. Can anyone explain? Civ is not a wargame.

[Solver]

Actually, Civ is a pretty free game, and it can be played as a wargame. There's a ton of players who enjoy having lots of action and little diplomacy.

I would also agree that Civ, per se, isn't designed for multiplayer. However, Civ4 WAS designed with good MP functionality in mind - it's definitely not for everyone, but there's no harm in it, and it actually proved to be quite popular, as you can see.

I don't myself see the attraction of Quick games with 100-120 turns, and 20 seconds per turn, but I just file it under one of those "to each their own" cases.

[JackRudd]

20 seconds per turn? If I have an important turn to make, I want to be able to take 20 minutes on it. SP or, at a pinch, PbEM all the way for me.

[Solver]

Yeah, I can relate to that more. I don't think I have ever taken 20 minutes on a turn in Civ4, but I certainly can sometimes take 10, particularly when I'm planning to declare war, or planning a major economy change.

[Diadem]

20 seconds on a turn is ridiculous. Watching a wonder movie takes longer!

Allright, I can understand why some people would find that entertaining. I guess it can be entertaining to play fast-paced wargames. But you can hardly call it civ. Especially if you stop the game after 130 turns, just when things are starting to get interesting.

At 20 seconds a turn a good start is just a matter of having some standard routines, and having so much experience that you can adapt those routines to the specific need of the land without even having to think.

Some of them might be good civ players. Certainly. Why not? It's possible to be good at two different games at the same time, obviously. But it seems like being good at ladder certainly does not mean being good at civ. It's a different game.

And honestly, if I want to play fast-paced wargames like that, I will boot up warcraft 3...

[sparkyal]

wow, MP. When are the games on saturdays? I'm 8 hours ahead of EST so I'd be curious about them.

I'm sure I'd get killed quickly because I would be clueless in MP. So if you see me there, be kind...

one thing I really do worry about in MP is that I'm very, very competitive. not that I get angry when I loose, i don't but against the AI, I'm pretty ruthless. I don't know that I wqould like the image i would protray if I was as ruthless against really people. Perhaps I'm the only person who feels that way?

sparky

[MasterDave]

I am a regular in the Apolyton Saturday games (which usually are played without a timer) and a regular on non-ladder lobby games, which are invariably quick and blazing. To correct a misconception in this thread, blazing starts at 24 seconds per turn, and gradually the turns get longer- with mid-game turns (around 1500 ad) at 1:30. I can usually stay ahead of the clock by taking measures such as turning off animations, using stack combat, automating workers after a certain point, and queuing up city production and stacked movement. I occasionally get into trouble with the timer when fighting two-front wars, but it is not usually a problem now that I have learned to play faster.

I played a couple of ladder games, but I did not like the format, nor the attitudes of the players I encountered, who will do anything to win, including claiming victory after a game crash, etc. Civ is not an RTS and I view ladder play as an attempt to make Civ a turn-based Rise of Nations or Age of Empires. If I want that, I'll play those games (or my current RTS obsession, Company of Heroes- great game!).

The Saturday games usually start at around 4:00 or 5:00 PM pacific time (7-8:00 PM EST). Anyone is welcome, and we generally have a good time. There are lots of wars, double and triple teaming, diplomacy, etc. and not quite as many caveman wars and chariot rushes that come with lobby/ladder play.