Canada?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Dis
my state does not belong in jesusland.

It sure does if Alberta does.

[Verenti]

Canada does not belong in Civ. We should be lumped in with Great Britain.

But we have quite the long list of inventors, Entertainers, politicians (We invented modern peace keeping during the Suez Crisis.) and Military leaders. But despite all this, the small matter of fact is Canada is not a nation, She is a country composed mainly of Two Nations, and thus does not belong in Civilization.

[Nubclear]

Russia, the US, Britain, etc are all states that have many nations within them.
Try again, monarchist

[conmcb25]

As soon as Canada has the highest banana production, I say go for it

[Lacaixa]

Canada provided some of the finest troops in both World Wars . They were fighting Hitler while under no direct threat themselves and I think they deserve a little more respect than they are getting.
Having said that it would be difficult to incorperate them as a Civ. I think instead the English Civ should be scrapped and replaced by a ' British ' Civ containing broader elements such as Scottish, Welsh, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand etc.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Russia, the US, Britain, etc are all states that have many nations within them.
Try again, monarchist

You have it exactly backwards for the United States. On paper, the USA is a nation with many states within it.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by MasterDave


You have it exactly backwards for the United States. On paper, the USA is a nation with many states within it.

No. On paper, the United States is 1 state, that is, the US is one political entity internationally that contains numerous nations, that is, contains numerous cultural divisions and identities.

The fact that the US likes to call its subdivisions "states", while perhaps indicative of the power of the central government, does not mean they are in fact states - they do not act as seperate entities in international diplomacy nor are they recognised as having the same degree of sovereignty as other states of the world.

As another example of a State with many Nations, we can look at Russia.
Historically, the German nation had been divided amongst various states (for instance, Prussia and Bavaria). I don't know if this is the case today (For instance, do Austrians consider themselves German?), but it just provides an example.

[Will9]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


No. On paper, the United States is 1 state, that is, the US is one political entity internationally that contains numerous nations, that is, contains numerous cultural divisions and identities.

We contain many cultures, but few cultural boundries. This is unlike the UK and Germany which has different culture, yet they came from the same one, in each province. The US has a spread of different cultures and cultural roots. The only cultural boundries that are the same as state borders are the Oaklohoma(sp?), wihich is mostly indian reserves, and Utah, which is mostly mormons. Some areas do have slightly different cultures, but the bordors usally are are quite wide (it takes more than the state of Kentucky to go from a clear southern culture to a clear Midwestern (midwestern is one of the representitive of American culture).
Do you really think you know our country better than we do.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Will9

Utah, which is mostly Mormons.

Not so much anymore. It's down to about 50% of the state right now. I should know; I live there.

Originally posted by Will9
Oaklohoma(sp?), wihich is mostly indian reserves

And Arizona also has a lot of native reservations (Navajo, etc.).

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Will9


We contain many cultures, but few cultural boundries. This is unlike the UK and Germany which has different culture, yet they came from the same one, in each province. The US has a spread of different cultures and cultural roots. The only cultural boundries that are the same as state borders are the Oaklohoma(sp?), wihich is mostly indian reserves, and Utah, which is mostly mormons. Some areas do have slightly different cultures, but the bordors usally are are quite wide (it takes more than the state of Kentucky to go from a clear southern culture to a clear Midwestern (midwestern is one of the representitive of American culture).
Do you really think you know our country better than we do.

The borders of a "nation" need not be official - a nation doesn't need to be an actual political unit within a state. All it needs is common identity. One could possibly identify the following nations within the US:

Black nation
WASP nation
Native American nations
Mexican nation
Gay nation
Southern nation
Texan nation
etc

The list is debateable. The point is, however, that all these cultural units exist WITHIN the United States. That is to say, these nations reside within the state called "United States of America". A nation is cultural, a state is political. Again, it isn't the case that the State of Utah, State of Arizona, State of California, etc all sent seperate armies to invade Iraq. It *is* the case that the United States did so.

In order to justify the statement that the US is 1 nation divided amongst many states, it would have to be the case that the US didn't exist at all as a political entity, but instead there existed the Republic of New Africa, the Iroquois Confederation, the CSA, the Republic of Texas, etc but they would all have to predominately subscribe to one identity. This clearly is not the case, for none of the listed states exist.

and Utah, which is mostly mormons.

Living here, this is somewhat false - the state isn't overwhelmingly Mormon (I live here ), and many would argue that Mormons do not have enough of a local identity to be classified as a "nation". Most subscribe to their identities as Americans far more than their identity as Mormon, I would say (some may disagree)

Do you really think you know our country better than we do.

Is that a question.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar



Gay nation

What would their UU be?

[Nubclear]

The Pedophile, of course. Recruits all other male units into the Gay Nation.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

and Utah, which is mostly mormons.

Living here, this is somewhat false - the state isn't overwhelmingly Mormon (I live here ),

Ditto.

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
and many would argue that Mormons do not have enough of a local identity to be classified as a "nation".

True. Especially since there are now more non-US LDS people than American ones.

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Most subscribe to their identities as Americans far more than their identity as Mormon, I would say (some may disagree)

I personally don't, but most seem to, yes.

[DirtyMartini]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
The Pedophile, of course. Recruits all other male units into the Gay Nation.

Perhaps you should change your name to Comrade Homophobe.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


The borders of a "nation" need not be official - a nation doesn't need to be an actual political unit within a state. All it needs is common identity. One could possibly identify the following nations within the US:

Black nation
WASP nation
Native American nations
Mexican nation
Gay nation
Southern nation
Texan nation
etc

The list is debateable.

It certainly is. The definition of "State" that we use in the US would probably be more of a "Province" in most other places. There is more than one definition for "State" that is legitimate.

Nations, in the traditional definition I am aware of are unified cultural groups that at one time or another been associated with a geographic region and share a common history. Poles, Serbs, Native Americans (further divided into Iriqois, Souix, Mohawks, etc), Mexicans, Swedes would be examples of "Nations" regardless of whether or not they have their own country at a given time. Purely ethnic groups or other minorities (such as Gays or WASPs (Although Anglo-Saxons are themselves a nation- leave out the White and Protestant part) are not "Nations" in that they do not have a singular unifying cultural identity nor a unified historical "homeland" (e.g. African Americans could be from any part of Africa originally, some are recent immigrants, most have been in the USA for five or more generations).