Upset at the lack of strategy guides for Warlords

[Rancidlunchmeat]

I just got Warlords on Friday and even though I had read the reviews on it from here and other places, I guess I wasn't paying attention.

Holy cow, Batman.. Warlords totally changes about the entire game. Not because of the (IMO) odd/sub-par importance of the actual Warlord unit, but because of the Unique Buildings.

We had many very lively and informative discussions in the past particularly about specialists. So much so that I was convinced that Firaxis wanted to almost force you to employ specialists in order to be successful at the higher levels.

Well, if there was any doubt before.. there shouldn't be any, with the introduction of UBs that almost all alter the availability of specialists.

I haven't played that many games (only one actually), but from reading the manual it appears you can start assigning specialists far earlier in this game than you could in vanilla CivIV, and that has huge implications for strategy.. especially with regard to GPPs.

The Madrassa replaces the Library and instead of just being able to assign two scientists, you can now assign two scientists AND two priests!

The Obelisk replaces the Obelisk (ha!) and now intead of just getting +1 culture, you can also assign two priests! This comes almost immediately, so its not a matter of time to research.. only time to grow so you can afford the specialists. Huge, if leveraged properly, IMO.

The Salon gives 1 free artist. What? Is that a misprint? Observatories are things that are built in many cities anyway, and now they're giving you 1 free artist for each?

The Assmbly Plant gives the chance to turn two extra citizens into engineers, The Odeon gives culture instead of happiness (does the Colosseum still give happiness) but can turn 2 citizens into artists..

It goes on, my purpose here wasn't to list all the UB attributes, but to merely point out the huge strategic implications of all these extra available specialists. And also to note that obviously Firaxis didn't think we were using artists properly, because that seems to be the most available specialist in Warlords... which has implications on its own.

By the way, I put this in here instead of in Warlords because.. well, it's strategy related and the Warlords forum doesn't seem to be very active. Feel free to move it, if the Mods want.

(Oh.. and I also noticed that Engineer specialists are still extremely limited, which reinforces my previously discussed belief that they are the most powerful of all)

[joncnunn]

Myself, I'm much more fond of Priests in early to mid game than Engineer's. You need Great Priests to turn your holy cities into shrines.

In addition, there's a Great Wonder that I already made a high priority that increases the hammer from Priests from 1 to 2, increasing production just as much until it expires in the modern era.

Once that wonder expires is when I'll massively switch Priests to Engineers.

On the Artist, I must confess that I use them least of all.

---
Madrassa's affect is that I'd make that building a higher priority than Temples and would also normally use the Priests first.

The new Obliesk would actually get on my building queue list if Stonehidge is missed unlike the old ones.

On the Salon, It's a good thing the Artist is free, if all it did was allow one I would have considered it lame.

The Assembly Plant will greatly increases (Germany's?) enginner count at that time compared to other civs. Hum, just in time for Panzers.

The Col still makes 1 citizen happy always and one additional with every 20% luxaries (rounded down). The primary thing the Odeon does that the Col does not is yield some culture. This makes the Odeon more likely to get on my building queue list. The ability for Artists basically means I'm likely to build Odeon's in captured cities to help convert the city to my culture.

Most of the UB come into the cateogory of being buildings likely to be massively built by the civ, but there's still a few exceptions. As noted on another thread, perhaps the weakest UB of all is the Celts, which merely adds a Free Guerilla to archery units.
I supose if you find yourself in a defensive war in which your cities were built on hills, it's useful, but I much prefer offensive wars myself.

[CerberusIV]

Most of the UB's vary from interesting to useful.

The one that baffles me is Ragnar's. A trading post that doesn't make any money? Sure, an extra ship movement is useful but a 10% boost to gold would make this a benefit rather than something you just build anyway because it replaces the lighthouse and is essential for coastal cities.

[JackRudd]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Most of the UB come into the cateogory of being buildings likely to be massively built by the civ, but there's still a few exceptions. As noted on another thread, perhaps the weakest UB of all is the Celts, which merely adds a Free Guerilla to archery units.
I supose if you find yourself in a defensive war in which your cities were built on hills, it's useful, but I much prefer offensive wars myself.

Archery, Recon and Gunpowder units - and you should be building a fair few gunpowder units in the latter stages. And the offensive value of the free Guerilla I promotion is that your units get one step closer to Guerilla II - double movement on hills! This allows your Infantry to escort Tanks without slowing them down.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Thanks for the replies, guys.. I was kinda looking more for what sort of new slingshots we can do using the early prophets or scientists that come about from the UBs.

The fact that you'll normally build most of these buildings anyway, is actually what makes the strategic implications all that more interesting... because you don't have to go out of your way production-wise to attempt/implement new strategies, but you do have to plan differently because now you need more population in the respective cities in order to take advantage of the specialists..

Getting two priest specialists out the door almost immediately through the oblesik I would think could be huge in terms of researching the right path to pop the right tech far earlier than any other Civ can expect a GP.

But, I weren't so lazy, I'd be investigating these things myself and not point fingers at the rest of you for not having done it already!

[Calvin Vu]

Originally posted by JackRudd
This allows your Infantry to escort Tanks without slowing them down.

No siege weapons ? I rely more on quality rather than quantity (to reduce unit supporting cost besides to have more and more experienced troops later). I never throw my elite units at cities with 40-100% defensive values, therefore the siege units are absolutely necessary until the arrival of bombers.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
Thanks for the replies, guys.. I was kinda looking more for what sort of new slingshots we can do using the early prophets or scientists that come about from the UBs.

I've used an old slingshot with a new twist: an Oracle grab for Feudalism with a Protective Civ - I favour Saladin, Churchill, or Wang Kon - makes for an enjoyably violent late BCs Longbow-fest.

I don't think it's necessarily as efficient as a CS Sling but it's certainly more fun.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Cool, thanks Pauli.

I well say that I managed to build the GW the other day, and the effects on the game are huge. Especially if you prioritize bronze working and then don't have any copper readily available on huge maps. Because you can essentially gamble to press ahead to iron working (and hope you get it) or go back down the archery path.. either which doesn't really give you alot of time to upgrade your army before Barbarian Axemen start crawling all over your civ and its improvments.

Of course, I happen to have stone, so it was fairly easy to research masonry, and get the wall built before the axemen started spawning. And then I was barbarian free while they ignored my cultural borders and went after the AI cities and improvements.

Anybody grab the GW on Raging Barbs with a huge map and lots of AI? I'd think that'd be rather exploitive..

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
Anybody grab the GW on Raging Barbs with a huge map and lots of AI? I'd think that'd be rather exploitive..

An even greater exploit would be to grab the Wall on Raging Barbs with a huge map and FEW AI! All the more room for barbs to spawn (not that I've yet played with raging barbs).

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Well, that would be true as well Jaybe, but I was considering the fact that in single player, the AI are your enemy. So the more of them that there are, the more they will suffer (as a whole) from the relentless barbarian attacks while you sit free and clear ignoring them completely, and only having to use your armies for AI defense or offensive campaigns.

So this way, there'd be closer AI cities that you could conquer more easily because they'd have been beaten down by the Barbs. And of course, as soon as the city was out of rebellion, the Barbs would have to ignore it as well.

[allybhoy]

Originally posted by Jaybe

An even greater exploit would be to grab the Wall on Raging Barbs with a huge map and FEW AI! All the more room for barbs to spawn (not that I've yet played with raging barbs).

I've done that, its almost cheating.....but fun

Even better is with a Philosophical Civ, grab the great wall and wait for the great engineer to pop the pyramids

[Dis]

I have a question about some of these UB's. Assembly Plant allows for 4 engineers. But other than that, it's the same as a factory, right? If you don't actually allocate 4 engineers, what good is it? I admit, this is a weak part of my game, as I don't micromanage specialists. I keep meaning too, but never do. . I just let the computer manage what tiles are worked.

[JackRudd]

And then use the next Great Engineer to pop the Parthenon (in a different city, natch), and then...

...you can get a lot of Wonders without spending an awful lot of hammers on them this way.

[ColdPhoenix]

The other bonus for the assembly plant is that you can construct it more quickly if you have coal. It sounds pretty weedy (and isn't great for a late game UB) but it is nice to be able to throw them up quickly.

[JackRudd]

Originally posted by Dis
I have a question about some of these UB's. Assembly Plant allows for 4 engineers. But other than that, it's the same as a factory, right? If you don't actually allocate 4 engineers, what good is it?

If you don't change governments to respond to changing situations, what good is the Spiritual trait?

(Or to put it another way: if you don't use a UB/UU/Trait's advantages, it's effectively useless, but that's your problem. The whole point of UBs like the Assembly Plant is that you manage the city to make use of their ability.

Frederick + Assembly Plant looks very nice, it has to be said - Great Engineers a-plenty.)