One or two questions

[couerdelion]

Since I’m just learning the ropes I have a couple of questions about Warlords which I’m sure some people might be able to help with

1) What do most people consider the best use for the first Great General.

At the moment, I’m most tempted by the idea of creating a warlord unit and probably sharing the 20 xp among three units (giving 7,7,6???). I would use the Warlord to get a CR II and Loyalty promotion while the other units would be given a CR III and CRII for an start-up invasion force (given that they are praets, I think that these are unlikely to run into trouble with archers or axemen defenders and will probably bring the second GG that much earlier.

I assume also that the 50% bonus to XP for the GG unit is not inate but only comes with the loyalty promotion.

The second and maybe third GG would probably be the military trainer for the +2 XP

2) What are unit production values in Epic/Marathon.

In the vanilla version I recall that units cost 125% and 150% of the standard speed prices in Epic and Marathon. However, the Warlords version seems to have these reverting to 150% and 300%. Is this supposed to happen or was there always the intention of having cheaper units for slower speeds?

[MightyTiny]

What I've done with my first great general is to attach it to my most experienced unit giving the whole 20 XP to that one unit.

This, because you need a very experienced unit to build first, the heroic epic, and then the west point; if by granting all the XP to one unit you can enable these two buildings, then I think that use for your first Great General has really paid off.

Later GGs I usually settle in my main military-production city, or build the military accademy there.

[Thrak]

Don't forget you can use that 1st GG for a medic III unit which can give a good boost to your early campaigns - as well as opening up heroic epic and west point.

It can be nice to attach the general to a siege unit, so that he does not die in defense/attack but can still be useful.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by MightyTiny
What I've done with my first great general is to attach it to my most experienced unit giving the whole 20 XP to that one unit.

This, because you need a very experienced unit to build first, the heroic epic, and then the west point; if by granting all the XP to one unit you can enable these two buildings, then I think that use for your first Great General has really paid off.

Later GGs I usually settle in my main military-production city, or build the military accademy there.

I can see that the HE and WP are harder to acquire now but I never really had any problems getting the XP for these before. So I think an extra 7 XP will make up the difference well enough.

[Jaybe]

Re: One or two questions

Originally posted by couerdelion
2) What are unit production values in Epic/Marathon.

In the vanilla version I recall that units cost 125% and 150% of the standard speed prices in Epic and Marathon. However, the Warlords version seems to have these reverting to 150% and 300%. Is this supposed to happen or was there always the intention of having cheaper units for slower speeds?

Your recollection of vanilla speed specs is incorrect. Since marathon was introduced, it has remained constant (epic values have changed somewhat):

Marathon: 1200 turns; costs at 300%
except unit training, golden age and anarchy period (each at 200%).

Epic: costs at 150%
except golden age (125%). Unit training is 150%, though pre-marathon it was 125%. Don't have anarchy info right now.

[DirtyMartini]

Originally posted by couerdelion


I can see that the HE and WP are harder to acquire now but I never really had any problems getting the XP for these before. So I think an extra 7 XP will make up the difference well enough.

That's what I thought too...at first. I find it much more tedious to get that extra promo and I played too many games waiting and waiting and picking my spots and getting the HE too late. Now I always turn that first GG into a Warlord attatched to a mounted unit and make it into a Medic III (thanks Blake). The rest get settled -- I still don't believe in the effectiveness of building the military academy.

[monkspider]

There was a pretty good discussion of some of the finer points of GG strategy here if you haven't seen it .

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155521

I think that like most things in Warlords, the correct use is highly situational. Most people have found the +50% XP promotion to be worthless since it essentially will always leave you one level behind the curve until you start getting into vast sums of XP that are rarely attainable in a normal game.

[monkspider]

A few notes of strategy I have developed:

If I get a GG ultra early with no theocracy/vassalge in sight, most notably if I am playing an imperialist civ, I will typically make him a great military instructor to get some ultra early CR II units out. This can be a very powerful early strategy.

If my first GG is around the catapult era, I will use him to make a medic III unit. Others have written at length on the strength of such units. In the past, I have usually just given all the EXP to the one unit with medic 3 and the +1 movement promo so I could theoretically use him to escape a tight jam. However, I think Courdelion's set up may be superior for these purposes. Use a warlord on 2-3 units, one of them with at least medic 1 already. Get the medic 3, and then have two other highly promoted units. Good call Courdy.

I am a firm believer in military academies and I find them to be better than military instructors once vassalage of theocracy has been unlocked. I love to use them in the capital since I typically build heroic epic elsewhere. However, instructors can still be strong if you plan on going for a super XP city with West Point. Triple Promoted units are indisputably great! The uber West Point City is an especially viable strategy with Imperialist civs.

I tend to create warlords primarily once the game hits Chemistry on since the long term benefits of instructors/military academies tend to shrink. However, at this point I am a believer in giving all your XP to one uber unit so that you can have a chance to get the ultra powerful combat VI.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by DirtyMartini
Now I always turn that first GG into a Warlord attatched to a mounted unit and make it into a Medic III (thanks Blake). The rest get settled -- I still don't believe in the effectiveness of building the military academy.

I will also use the first GG as a warlord and GG no. 2 and 3 as military instructors in my Heroic Epic and (eventually) West Point city. With West Point, this will give me level 4 (11 xp) units built from scratch (assuming I'm running neither vassalage nor theocracy). GG no. 4, however, may be used for a military academy - the 25% producion may be small compared to the 100% of Heroic epic, but it ensures that a still larger proportion of my armed forces will stem from this city.

If I have agressive neighbors and face long, protracted wars either before the chance to build West Point or with the possibility for at least six GG's, I will settle GG's no. 2 to 6 as military instructors and eventually get level 5 (17 xp) units. GG no. 7 (assuming I'm that lucky) will be used for a military academy.

In my second win at Monarch level, I was playing as Caesar (imperialistic, therefore more GG's) and fought four or five major wars against Montezuma. (I started the first one by stealing a worker with a chariot, and he hated me ever since then - relations were mostly around -20.) In this game, I got 9 GG's (one from Fascism) - one used as a warlord, one for a military academy and seven as instructors in my Heroic Epic/West Point city. Coupled with the Pentagon (and without vassalage or theocracy), this meant 23 xp units out of the gate.

[Jaybe]

While some have said that military academies have minimal worth once a city is cranking out units every turn, that is obviously NOT at marathon speed.

Probably not even with heroic epic/ironworks/factory with power.