Combat System

[K.C.Jensen]

I recently switched from CIV III PTW to CIV IV and I love the new graphics and interface. But I’m not so sure about the unit / combat system. The combat system in III was relatively simple, but did justice to the way things are. Fast units can out maneuver slow units and so avoid annihilation when odds go against them in combat. Artillery pounds the enemy form a far, but is defenseless when the enemy enters the same square. So artillery should always be protected by defensive units.

Not so in CIV IV. Artillery charges at foot soldiers ( and gets away with it ) but your basic cannon cannot bombard, and when you can, there is a distinction between pounding a city to rubble and pounding a dug in stack, why?
Units are supposed to build experience, but they rarely get a chance to leave the field and become those seasoned veterans. If you want an experience system, some part of the unit should survive and be re-equipped and become your elite of the elite.

[Dale]

Check out my combat mod (link in my sig). Does a lot to change the Civ4 combat system.

[MasterDave]

The Civ 3 combat system, especially where artillery is concerned, may indeed be more true to life. However, with the humongous stacks of units involved, it alsmade o got to be very tedious, especially in the end game where you had to move 100 or 150 units each turn if you were at war. This made the end game take forever, and also rendered multiplayer to be intolerably slow as the unit count skyrocketed.

The new system takes some getting used to, but IMO, it is far more pacing friendly, multiplayer friendly, and helps keep reduce the endgame grind.

I do think that cannon and artillery should be able to attack ships, however. Also, ships should have the ability to detroy land improvements along the coast like they had in Civ 3.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Dale
Check out my combat mod (link in my sig). Does a lot to change the Civ4 combat system.

Hope you´ll write a version for Warlords soon.
(only reason why I didn´t test it yet, as I don´t want to switch back to Vanilla and just heard about the mod when Warlords was already installed)

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by MasterDave
I do think that cannon and artillery should be able to attack ships, however. Also, ships should have the ability to detroy land improvements along the coast like they had in Civ 3.

I assume you only don´t want it for gamebalance purposes,
as in reality cannons/artillery was indeed able to attack ships from land (the spanish forts guarding the carribean cities as an example for installed cannons attacking sail ships and the german-danish war of 1864 as an example for prussian field artillery attacking danish ironclads)

[MasterDave]

There are hundreds of historic examples of land artillery engaging ships and vice-versa. I think the reason I would like to have them be able to fight eachother is to

1) make navies more relevant: In the current game, if you do not have many "fishy" resources nor lots of cities near the coast, then you can completely ignore building your navy to defend against other navies. If ships (frigates and up) could also destroy improvements on land, then there is more to lose by not countering enemy navies.

2) Cannons fighting navies: It seems one sided that a frigate can bombard a city full of cannons or artilleries and they cannot fire back. Perhaps if each cannon unit had a chance to "intercept" a ship bombard attempt and damage the ship instead- similar to fighter aircraft, that would resolve the problem.

[Proteus_MST]

Would indeed be interesting.
Maybe an something like the system in Civ III.
Cannons/Artillery in Fortresses or cities
being able to fire shots at passing enemy ships.

This could lead to chains of fortresses at the coast just like the Atlantikwall during WW 2.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I'm cool with the idea of ships being able to attack installations onshore, but not until ironclads. And in a weird kind of symmetry, I don't think that onshore siege units (the only land units that should be able to attack ships at all, IMO) should be able to attack any ships more modern than an ironclad. That seems to be the way it worked historically.

Fighter aircraft should be able to do more damage to ships at sea. Bombers are fine the way they are (strategic bombers were never as good as carrier planes at attacking ships).

[K.C.Jensen]

Dale you are my new CIV hero! I have not yet had the time to install your mod, but from reading the description it seems just what the doktor orderd

[Prussia]

Would also be nice if battleships could actually attack units on coast, or attack cities...

[Dale]

They can in my combat mod.

[johnmcd]

If ships can destroy improvements I think it would have to be a limited ability. I'd limit it to idustrial tile improvements - mills, workshops and mines. The others are not really of a kind that are destroyed by shelling I'd say.