Breaking Up a Good Friendship

[YC4B4U]

The stories about the Vassal suggesting you attack the Master reminds me of the school bully's latest whipping boy daring you to hit the bully. You know you want to, but it is just plain stupid...

[eris]

Originally posted by alexman
Good find!

In the patch we will change it so that when you declare war on the vassal, YOU will also automatically declare war on the master, thus activating the defensive pacts.

Oh dear, the one time I find something originally clever and you are going to close it!

I would prefer it if somehow the Master has to arrange Defense Pacts with other Civs and the Vassal as separate agreements than those with the master. "I am a big Civ and it is worth it to ally with me! However, my Vassal is weak and an obvious target. How much do I have to bribe you to be a Defense partner with them, too?" "Uh, no thanks, they're your problem this time." Also, if a Civ is in a Defense Pact with another Civ, a newly acquired Vassal State arrangement could make the Defense Partners re-think that Defense Pact as being more risky and less beneficial. "They're going to drag us into a war with their Imperialistic ways!"

Please don't remove the tactic entirely. There must be some ways to make this more off a trade-off decision. I know that in the one case I mention, I had to travel halfway across the world to prosecute he declaration. Here is one suggestion that might help things. The Master of a Vassalage, or the members of a Defense Pact, do not react immediately on a Declaration of War. It is too easy to manipulate that situation. Instead, they react when you actually invade enemy territory or destroy enemy units. It is probably still possible to manipulate the world, but it could be a challenge. F'rinstance, declaration of war ends all associated Open Border aggreements immediately but does not trigger War until combat is initiated. What if all of a sudden I didn't have access to that Vassal I wanted to attack?

[Stuie]

Re: Breaking Up a Good Friendship

Originally posted by eris
To simplify. Civ A has a vassal state B. Civ A has two Defense Pact partners, Civs C and D. You need to invade. What do you do?

Bribe Civ E to attack first, breaking up the Defense Pack.