Great General Strategy Discussion

[gdgrimm]

I still haven't gotten a GG. Dang Marathon setting.

Anyway, the Advisor/Academy trade-off.....

At first glance, I'd lean towared Acadamies for warmongering, since strength in numbers is generally part of the offensive attack plan, and that's often best generated by multiple cities pumping out units fast.

For building/culture strategies, the Advisors may make more sense. It's likely that all your military will be built by only one or two cities anyway, and having them all highly promoted for defense/counter-attack may be of more value than building a lot of them.

[eris]

For my second ever Warlords game, I did pick Julius Ceaser to see what extra Great General points and Great Generals would do for me. Actually, I picked Imperialism for the cheaper Settler, but that is another discussion.

I am not the best warmonger, so take that into account; this is all strange territory.

I got four Great Generals total:

The first was rather early because of Imperialism I assume. I disagree with the reasoning of the OP and think that +25% military units is worth a lot. So, that first General became a Military Acadamy in what was targeted to be my unit city. (Not the capitol. That is for Ironworks and World Wonders.)

The second went into the Unit City (I may use that as a City name...) as an instructor. I like the idea of multiple military instructors and will remember that.

The third Great General went to upgrade a single Calvary unit. I decided I wanted West Point as soon as possible, and this was the extremely clever way I found to get a level 6 unit. Reading this thread, I guess I was re-inventing the obvious, but I felt good about it at the time. (It didn't hurt that I got a Great Engineer the next turn and finished off West Point immediately. Possibly not the best use of the Great Engineer, but I had more military faster. I like that!)

The fourth came a little late and went to the capitol to improve miltary since I was in full Invade-the-Enemy mode and wasn't chasing World Wonders anymore.

So, I had two wonderful military citiies and one very powerful Cavalry who became an even better Gunship. By the way, the graphic for a Warlord enhanced Gunship is kind of amusing. There is this General figure running to keep up with a helicopter as it flies across enemy territory. I didn't coddle the unit as a Calvary too much. It could eat Riflemen for breakfast with all the promotions it had. As a Gunship, it was awesome and fun to zip around enemy territory and kill most anyone standing around. At one point the enhanced Gunship was picking off Infantry that had been bombed to half strength while in the city. Meanwhile, the Tanks were slogging through Forest and Hills to catch up and take over the invasion.

When I got the first Great General, I did some serious thinking about whether I could get together 20 low level defenders (Warriors, Archers, etc) in one tile and give them each one point of enhancement. Then I would have 20 units that would upgrade free all the way to Mechanical Infantry. It was more management than I wanted and would have possibly left some cities at low defense levels for a moment. But I still wonder about it, and it still sounds like a tempting idea.

And I found myself less upset when I was invaded, something that usually causes panic. "They're inside my borders!! AAAACK!!" Now I catch myself thinking, "Oh goody! More Great General points!" For a builder, this is a wierd change of reaction.

[samspock]

I finished my first complete game yesterday (a bunch of false starts) and two of they ai's kept going to war with each other. I saw them both get a GG. I then declared war on one (Ghandi) just after he made peace with the Ottomans (which were owning him) and rolled over him quickly. In Delhi I found a military academy waiting for me! Soon after I noticed that I was not yet at domination (needed 68%, new limit?) and attacked the Ottomans. When I got Istanbul I found another Military Academy!

In that game I got two GG's myself, I settled one in my HE city and used the other to upgrade a level 6 Axeman to Rifleman for free.

[rah]

Originally posted by eris
When I got the first Great General, I did some serious thinking about whether I could get together 20 low level defenders (Warriors, Archers, etc) in one tile and give them each one point of enhancement. Then I would have 20 units that would upgrade free all the way to Mechanical Infantry. It was more management than I wanted and would have possibly left some cities at low defense levels for a moment. But I still wonder about it, and it still sounds like a tempting idea.

I thought only the unit you attached the GG to got the free upgrades. If that's not the case, I have lots of free upgrades to get.

[Forwarn45]

As Cyrus (imperialistic, charismatic) in my first game, I used the "sprinkle" with my first two warlords to bring 4 green, newly built units with 3 experience up to 8 experience. This moves them up from level 1 to level 3 units. It seems like a good move on a medium-sized map (which I'm playing) or smaller. Of course, having the cheaper promotions helps. It was not too hard to get some of those units up to level 4 through combat - and I didn't mind losing one or two.

[eris]

Originally posted by rah


I thought only the unit you attached the GG to got the free upgrades. If that's not the case, I have lots of free upgrades to get.

I have been re-reading the manual and I think you are right. It is only one unit that has the Warlord attached and gets the free upgrades.

[Arrian]

So far I've used my first GG to make sure I get the lvl5 unit required for the HE. That's a given, because I think the HE is a hugely useful building and it will typically take me a long time to get a lvl5 unit w/o the XP sprinkle.

So far I've been loading up on City Raider promos and the special added xp from battle promo. The Medic III, however... Blake makes a good point. I'll have to remember that.

My 2nd GG gets settled in my HE city, so that the city can produce 5XP unit. Later GGs... most likely the same. Build West Point, Pentagon and settle 4 GGs and presto, you've got level 5 units right off the assembly line. Yummy.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by eris


I have been re-reading the manual and I think you are right. It is only one unit that has the Warlord attached and gets the free upgrades.

Correct. Those units also upgrade w/o losing XP (whereas other units get dropped to 10XP), which is even nicer than saving some gold!

-Arrian

[PaganPaulwhisky]

I also think that the +25% military production is quite useful and a far better use of GG than attaching them to a unit, although I do like the idea of adding all experience to one unit to obtain HE or WP very early (since I try to do this anyway).

On monarch level the AI will have tons of units and a few warlords mixed into your troop supply will make very little difference. Besides there is really no use to having a very highly promoted unit if you are only going to use it to pick off wounded units with 99% success (I can do that with most any unit). I have always used my highly promoted units to fight the tough battles and then mop up with the others. I don't care if they die since I always build a high quantity of units. If I have a moderate chance of success then I attack. Sure I lose a lot of units, but I conquer territory very quickly.

I find that once I achieve military superiority then I can very easily crush any AI, thus military unit production is the key factor for me in domination games. I would at the very least build military academies in my HE and WP cities and then probably use the rest as instructors.

This expansion is a war-monger's wet dream...........

Hmmm, I wonder why they added the protective trait.

[Randolph]

Originally posted by Arrian


Correct. Those units also upgrade w/o losing XP (whereas other units get dropped to 10XP), which is even nicer than saving some gold!

-Arrian

Really?! So any unit that gets any XP from a Warlord will not lose XP when upgraded? Or do they just get the Warlord XP +10? If it’s the former that’s certain a significant point.

[Arrian]

Say you have a Maceman with a warlord attached. He's at 22/26 XP. You upgrade him to a Rifleman. He's still got 22/26 XP.

This is how I had a 49/50 XP Mechanized Infantry last night. I would've gotten him to 50, but I was just a border pop from domination anyway...

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Only units with the Warlord attached get any bonuses, apart from the one-time XP sprinkle when you attach the Warlord to a unit.

[Randolph]

Ok, that makes more sense, so the "sprinkle units" lose XP when they are upgraded?

On different note, I’m a bit skeptical about the “there’s no point to a super-unit warlord if you only attack at 98%+ win chance.” If that unit has combat VI (+75% strength) it’s going to have a win chance in the high 90s in situations where other units would have only about a 75% chance. Add to that a high withdrawal chance, and it I would think you’d have a unit with significant survivability. I haven’t had a chance to play much (sounds like some people have), so maybe it just doesn’t work out this way for whatever reason.

[Philotas]

I think, like the other great people, you have to make the decision on a "as need" basis. Putting a great artist in a city will likely give you more total culture than using one as a culture "bomb", but that bomb may be what you need most at that time. Same with the great generals.....long term, a military instructor may give you more total unit experience, but possible that you would really need those extra 20 points on the field right then and there.

[Arrian]

Yes, the sprinkle units are normal units in all respects, besides the fact that they get some of the sprinkle XP.

I've babied my GG units a little bit (making sure I've got ~95% odds when attacking), but of course the more experienced they get, the easier it is to attain those odds.

Mechanized Infantry: City Raider III, Leadership, Combat 1, Pinch, Tactics. BadassMoFo.

-Arrian