Really annoyed, Whos with me?

[faded glory]

Open borders is so ahistorical for military units. I mean when in history did this happen? It was so rare and yet its so common in this game


For example. Im playing inland sea. I am at war with the aztecs directly bordering me my left. Motezuma bribed catherine to join, far to the south and surrounded by other civs. Im not concerned.

However, lo and behold 4 (like 20 units) of Catherines armies/stacks is already at my opposite mostly ungaurded right border inside a nuetral countries territory. So they snuck all the way up and around. . I appreciate the AI intellegince in sneak attacks. But this is annoying.

The fact they can come halfway across the map and be sheltered by a nuetral nation. I can do nothing to strike back. There is almost a huge handicapp for the human player.



I dont allow AI to come into my borders cause it gets annoying after awhile and it seems the AI is more than willing to use the 'open borders agreement' to launch suprise attacks against my undefended inner cities.



Who is with me?

No more military units allowed through open borders agreements. Only workers/scouts/etc

[Grenouille]

I`m with ya, it`s really annoying as hell!

[Harovan]

Re: Really annoyed, Whos with me?

Originally posted by faded glory
Open borders is so ahistorical for military units. I mean when in history did this happen? It was so rare and yet its so common in this game

Historically, military units didn't even care about borders. Or do you think all the crusaders aven asked all the provinces they passed on the way to the Holy Land? If they talked with the local nobility at all, they at most agreed to only steal food and rape women only once.

For example. Im playing inland sea. I am at war with the aztecs directly bordering me my left. Motezuma bribed catherine to join, far to the south and surrounded by other civs. Im not concerned.

However, lo and behold 4 (like 20 units) of Catherines armies/stacks is already at my opposite mostly ungaurded right border inside a nuetral countries territory. So they snuck all the way up and around. . I appreciate the AI intellegince in sneak attacks. But this is annoying.

The fact they can come halfway across the map and be sheltered by a nuetral nation. I can do nothing to strike back. There is almost a huge handicapp for the human player.

You can. Just sign Open Border agreements. You don't want that? Then sit and suffer the superior AI diplomacy.

I dont allow AI to come into my borders cause it gets annoying after awhile and it seems the AI is more than willing to use the 'open borders agreement' to launch suprise attacks against my undefended inner cities.

You do realize that the AI can't do that, don't you? As soon as war is declared, their units will be teleported outside your borders.

[faded glory]

Re: Re: Really annoyed, Whos with me?

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Historically, military units didn't even care about borders. Or do you think all the crusaders aven asked all the provinces they passed on the way to the Holy Land? If they talked with the local nobility at all, they at most agreed to only steal food and rape women only once.

LOL YA. Cause all that land the crusaders went through was controlled by a mighty empire that could do something about it



So you think that turkey would of cared if 200,000 goosestepped through there country on the way to Baku in 1942? I dont understand, and why are you laughing. Im trying to be constructive, your being a *****.

You can. Just sign Open Border agreements. You don't want that? Then sit and suffer the superior AI diplomacy.

I dont want those idiots running columns of tanks through my land to attack someone on the otherside of the world. Its really friggin annoying.

Superior ai diplmacy? Please. Its about an enemy being on the otherside of the ocean declaring war and moving 20 modern units through 6 different nations. plz

You do realize that the AI can't do that, don't you? As soon as war is declared, their units will be teleported outside your borders.

K GUYZ LOOK AI = SMART.GO FOORAXES.LOL

RITE GUYZ?




so if im wrong and am the only one who finds this things annoying, let no one else post and let this thread drop into apolyton hell.

[faded glory]

editi have banned way to much on ACS in the last 5 years. i need to control what i say

[Will9]

Re: Re: Really annoyed, Whos with me?

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

You do realize that the AI can't do that, don't you? As soon as war is declared, their units will be teleported outside your borders.

Actually it can happen. Once had open borders with Peter, and he brought 5-6 in my territory. When he declared war on me none of the troops left.

I do think multiple levels of open borders should be permited.

Level 1: trade is permitted, but not to the full effect.

Level 2: trade closer to the full effect. Wokers, Settlers, scouts, explorers, GP, and missionaries may enter the other nations borders. Millitary units can enter 4 squares into the other nation's territory. All units will exit in the event of war. Trade is at full effect if the city is withen 4 squares of the border.

Level 3: trade is at the full effect. All units may enter anywhere in the other nation's borders. All units will exit in the event of war.

[Blake]

Well it would be a bit easy if simply befriending your immediate neighbors resulted in immunity from attack...

There's no such thing as a safe border. Be paranoid. Very paranoid.

[Dominae]

Re: Re: Re: Really annoyed, Whos with me?

Originally posted by Will9
Actually it can happen. Once had open borders with Peter, and he brought 5-6 in my territory. When he declared war on me none of the troops left.

His units were teleported out on the turn he declared war with full movements points, so he just moved them back in immediately. This is an exploit that you can use too (although it's a far cry from what we could do in Civ3!).

[Harovan]

Re: Re: Re: Really annoyed, Whos with me?

Originally posted by faded glory
LOL YA. Cause all that land the crusaders went through was controlled by a mighty empire that could do something about it

Does Byzantium ring a bell?

Not that the "Open Border agreement" they signed (or rather were forced into) protected Constantinople from being pillaged, though. With this in mind, you should be glad that the Open Border agreement in Civ4 can't be raped this way (like it could in Civ3).

So you think that turkey would of cared if 200,000 goosestepped through there country on the way to Baku in 1942?

That's the beauty of Open Border agreements. They can be granted sometimes. And sometimes denied.

The U. S. of A. asked Turkey for an Open Border agreement too, when they attacked Iraq. They were denied it. Qatar and Kuwait granted the request. You see, Open Border agreements are a diplomatic factum until today.

I dont understand, and why are you laughing. Im trying to be constructive, your being a *****.

What can I do? I am born this way. Some are born normal. Some as retards. Others as *****. I am a *****, obviously.

I dont want those idiots running columns of tanks through my land to attack someone on the otherside of the world. Its really friggin annoying.

Once 10 turns are over, you can cancel an Open Border any time and all these units will leave your territory in less than a second.

Superior ai diplmacy? Please. Its about an enemy being on the otherside of the ocean declaring war and moving 20 modern units through 6 different nations. plz

If you don't use a diplomatic option and the AI does and gains an advantage this way, it outsmarted you. That simple.

By the way, the water in inland sea is not supposed to be an ocean (those don't happen to be "inland"). It's rather a small sea like the Baltic or the Mediterranean.

K GUYZ LOOK AI = SMART.GO FOORAXES.LOL

RITE GUYZ?

No comment.

[LDiCesare]

As Sir Ralph pointed out, Byzantium is a good example.
In my current game, I'm finding out that Open Borders is actually helpful, since the Persians are crossing my own territory to attack the Greeks, which lets me prepare my own attack against the Persians way better.
I think modern day rights of passage are very common.
What does piss me off is the fact that people the other side of the world declare war on you. Most of the time, they can gain nothing from such a war, as they won't be able to hold their conquests, and these would cost them so much in maintenance/distance from palace. The only things they can obtain are -weaken an enemy, but not one which is threatening since they're far away, and -pillage towns for gold, which may be offset by the cost of building and deploying an army in the first place.

So I think open borders are ok per se, but attacking a nation which has no border (the ocean/seas can count as a border here) looks ludicrous at least in the early game.

[Harovan]

I use Open Border agreements all the time. It's the best invention since sliced bread. I just love to have explorers as "war correspondents" in foreign lands. Or I have a military presence on another continent without paying for a city. I try to sign and keep as many OB agreements as I can. If passing units annoy me, or block my roads and hinder my workers, I just cancel it until the war is over and resign it. I never regretted that.

[Prussia]

The only time you can think of a safe border is when there are a bunch of mountains backed by water on one side.

[Will9]

Unfortantly in civ4 you can't stop units by placing a unit there.

[LordShiva]

If a civ signs open borders with a civ you're at war with, they must die too. That is all.

[yin26]

I like the fact that in Civ 4 many of the things that seem like pure pluses on the surface actually have some substantial drawbacks. Religion is one. "Would you like to found X,Y,Z Religion and get some happiness?" Wow, sounds great! Until all the A,B,C Religion Civs attack you.

Open borders is one of these, too, and one of the help messages upon loading a game even warns that open borders might be a ploy for the AI to scout you out for its own uses. But if you don't sign ANY, you lose the chance for some bonuses...so what to do?

Strategize.