Armies

[Will9]

When I heard armies were being taken out of civ I was upset, but once I got civ4 and found out that the combat system had been overhaled I didn't really care anymore. Anyway, recently I thought of a new abillity for great generals. What if two Great Generals could combine 5-6 units into an army. You could still promote and upgrade the units inside the amy. You could also promote the army in general. Such as an abillity too increase your line of site if you have scouts,explorers, mounted units (unincluding war elephents), or helicoptors in the army. Also, something that would make siege units (unincluding machine guns) more powerful when attacking cities. I'm not quite sure what the stregth ranking would be (mabye the aver of all the units strength, divided by two, plus the strength of the stongest unit). Does anyone else agree or have any other ideas?

[Prussia]

I don't really think it's neccessary for Civ IV because you can just attack in stacks anyways, and it would be the same thing.

Also, the way you're suggesting seems a bit uneven and would be too advantageous if you just got a great general.

[Will9]

That's why I said two great generals.

[Prussia]

Oh.

Still unneccesary however.

[rjwoer]

Originally posted by Prussia
I don't really think it's neccessary for Civ IV because you can just attack in stacks anyways, and it would be the same thing.

But wouldn't it be different because the units would "shuffle" during an attack? This is what I remember about armies. That, when one unit was attacking and close to dying, another would instantly shift "forward" and continue fighting until the enemy died. Maybe I'm retarded and am just mis-remembering this.

[Will9]

Originally posted by rjwoer


But wouldn't it be different because the units would "shuffle" during an attack? This is what I remember about armies. That, when one unit was attacking and close to dying, another would instantly shift "forward" and continue fighting until the enemy died. Maybe I'm retarded and am just mis-remembering this.

Yeah that's right.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

I loved armies. It was my favorite part of Civ III. Being able to get a great general and build an Army that attacked as a unit and seemed to have more power as a whole than the sum of its parts would indicate.

I still think the army feature should be put back in. It should receive some sort of bonus, with the downside that units within an army can't be upgraded and armies can't be disolved (just like in 3)

[rjwoer]

I agree. To some extent.

I think armies have the potential to imbalance the game, especially considering the CIV 4 implementations of upgrades and a better battle engine. If armies were to be re-introduced, I would want some significant "penalties," like double unit cost of the units within, or a negative effect on happiness in all cities. Something along those lines.

[Prussia]

Originally posted by rjwoer


But wouldn't it be different because the units would "shuffle" during an attack? This is what I remember about armies. That, when one unit was attacking and close to dying, another would instantly shift "forward" and continue fighting until the enemy died. Maybe I'm retarded and am just mis-remembering this.

But how is that better than just attacking in stacks, it basically does the same thing, and the leader doesn't provide any sort of bonus.

[iapetus556]

Originally posted by Prussia


But how is that better than just attacking in stacks, it basically does the same thing, and the leader doesn't provide any sort of bonus.

Because Civ3 armies effectively granted all units in them a 100% retreat chance (on attack and defence).

[Prussia]

Originally posted by iapetus556


Because Civ3 armies effectively granted all units in them a 100% retreat chance (on attack and defence).

Umm... No...

If you had an army of swordsmen, no matter if they were attacking or defending, they wouldn't retreat.

[Will9]

Originally posted by Prussia


Umm... No...

If you had an army of swordsmen, no matter if they were attacking or defending, they wouldn't retreat.

Say they have 30 exp unit in their city and one of your units weakens it. You will have wait 2 turns to attack that unit again, and it may be even strongerWith armies that won't happen.

[Virtual Alex]

Swordsman A would attack Pikeman in city until it took 3-4 damage, it would then pull back into the army, and Swordsman B would then attack the Pikeman until it took 3-4 damage, it would then pull back into the army, finaly swordsman C would attack the pikeman until taking 3-4 damage. If all that happens before the pikemans dies, the army and all 3 swordsman are still alive, and simply need to go to a city to heal and then come back full force. The same is true on defense. If one unit takes too much damage defending, it pulls back and the next defends all in the same round. Also armies can attack 3 times in a single turn, which is a huge bonus. So attack with an army was very much different than attacking with a stack. Not to mention armies always move 2, even if they are full of 1 move units. In essence, armies create a unit with an ton of HP (13-15 usually, 17-20 with pentagon) and the ability to survive any attack 100% of the time, unless the player forces a 3 hp army to attack. It can die on defense, but losing 15 hp from inside a city shouldn't happen unless it's cavalry defending tanks.

The problem I had with armies is the AI never had/used them. I have never played a game ever where I saw a single AI army. I on the other hand would have 3-4 killing everything I got near. 10 cannons and 3 cavalry in an army can single handedly take out a whole empire. As long as you have some garrison troops. The AI would never use it on me however, so even though I loved the concept, I did feel it gave the player too much of an advantage. I guess on Emprorer that advantage would be welcomed though, I played on Monarch.

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by Virtual Alex


The problem I had with armies is the AI never had/used them. I have never played a game ever where I saw a single AI army.

[Prussia]

Originally posted by Virtual Alex

The problem I had with armies is the AI never had/used them.

They SOMETIMES had them in my games, but they only knew how to use them on emporer.