Factual errors/inconsistencies in the Civilopedia

[Badtz Maru]

I was recently without internet access and wanted to do some reading, so I started going through articles in the Civilopedia and I found quite a few errors. I know I found more than I can remember now, but here's the few I've noticed, and I'm wondering what other mistakes people found.

1. Conflicting information on the state religion of China. When I read the articles on Confucianism and Taoism, I noticed that they each claimed to have been the state religion of China during the same timeframe - Taoism is said to have been the state religion of China for over a thousand years, until 1911. The article on Confucianism states that it Confucianism was the state religion of China until the rise of the communists. Clearly, both of these cannot be correct.

2. Age of Judaism. The civilopedia says the religion was born "perhaps 4000 years ago". At least they put the "perhaps" in there, but from my understanding historical scholars trace back the roots of Judaism to 1300 BC, and at the beliefs of the Israelites at this time were very different from the monotheistic religion that it evolved into - it was polytheistic at first, shifted towards henotheism (accepting multiple gods but only worshipping one of them), and the religion was not truly monotheistic until much later, probably during the Babylonian Captivity when the religion picked up a lot of it's more modern ideas (as well as the current Hebrew script). This was around 600 BC.

One could say that Judaism traces back to app. 3300 years ago, but that would be a misleading statement as it was a very different religion. I don't know of any reputable historian who would claim the Jewish faith goes back to 2000 BC, though Jewish tradition does claim that. If the authors of the article were going to base the ages of religions on that religion's traditional views, they should bump back the start day of Islam as Moslems believe that Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were all Moslems.

[Solver]

Muslims believe that Moses and Jesus were prophets, but "false" prophets. According to Islam, Muhammad is the one and only true prophet of the Allah, to whom the Quran was revealed. Mohammed founded Islam, so it was certainly not before his time.

According to Judaism, Abraham is the first Jewish person. He's the founder of Judaism, and dates to circa 1800 BC, hence that would put Judaism at an almost 4000 year old history.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Solver
According to Judaism, Abraham is the first Jewish person. He's the founder of Judaism, and dates to circa 1800 BC, hence that would put Judaism at an almost 4000 year old history.

Abraham is the first Jewish person? I thought Jews were descendants of his greatgrandson Judah???
(Correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Solver
Muslims believe that Moses and Jesus were prophets, but "false" prophets. According to Islam, Muhammad is the one and only true prophet of the Allah, to whom the Quran was revealed. Mohammed founded Islam, so it was certainly not before his time.

I'm sorry, but you are very wrong. Moses and Jesus are highly revered in Islam, and are believed to have been true Muslims that had their message corrupted. Mohammed is considered the last prophet, but not the only one. Jesus (referred to as Isa in the Quran) is believed to be the Messiah, but not the son of God, and is supposed to return to Earth in the end times and appear at Muhammed's side.

[One_more_turn]

They got the Qin Shi-Huang's birthdate wrong.

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by Alexander01


Abraham is the first Jewish person? I thought Jews were descendants of his greatgrandson Judah???
(Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Abraham was the one who first recieved God's covenant, so he was the first Jew. Abraham's Grandson, Jacob, who was the father of 12 sons, who descendants became the twelve tribes of Israel, one of Jacob's sons being Judah.

[Bkeela]

It is very clumsy to refer to all followers of the Law as Jews.

As Badtz Maru points out, the faith evolved over time. From Abraham to Moses, the belief system would have been largely tribal in nature. Through Moses to the destruction of the second temple, it became codified and sophisticated. The Diaspora took the remanents of their faith and Judaism as we now know it came into existence.

I think some other name should be applied to the religion of the Israelite people from Moses to Jesus. Maybe The Law, or some such name.

[Locutus]

Re: Factual errors/inconsistencies in the Civilopedia

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
1. Conflicting information on the state religion of China. When I read the articles on Confucianism and Taoism, I noticed that they each claimed to have been the state religion of China during the same timeframe - Taoism is said to have been the state religion of China for over a thousand years, until 1911. The article on Confucianism states that it Confucianism was the state religion of China until the rise of the communists. Clearly, both of these cannot be correct.

No, not clearly. These claims are not mutually exclusive. Seperating Confucianism and Taoism is a nice thing to do in theory, and they do have seperate roots, but in reality they are very much entwined, with each other and with Buddhism. The combination of the three has effectively been the Chinese 'state religion' (if you can call it that) since the Tang dynasty (although Confucianism goes back further, to Han times).

On the Judaism issue, you're right, that's a claim based on religious scripture, not historical evidence. But Jews are particularly sensitive about this issue, saying their religion stems from ~1300 BC would piss some of them off and that's not something Firaxis is looking for. The "perhaps" makes scientists happy, the ludicrous 4000 years claims the Jews. Everyone happy, Firaxis HQ doesn't get bombed

[_BuRjaCi_]

Re: Re: Factual errors/inconsistencies in the Civilopedia

Originally posted by Locutus

On the Judaism issue, you're right, that's a claim based on religious scripture, not historical evidence. But Jews are particularly sensitive about this issue, saying their religion stems from ~1300 BC would piss some of them off and that's not something Firaxis is looking for. The "perhaps" makes scientists happy, the ludicrous 4000 years claims the Jews. Everyone happy, Firaxis HQ doesn't get bombed

Jews and scientists bomb buildings?

[Badtz Maru]

Re: Re: Re: Factual errors/inconsistencies in the Civilopedia

Originally posted by _BuRjaCi_


Jews and scientists bomb buildings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing

[_BuRjaCi_]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Factual errors/inconsistencies in the Civilopedia

Originally posted by Badtz Maru


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing

Wow, I gues being nearly exterminated makes a people kinda militant.

But, my was a refernce to the present.

What about scientists, did they bomb anyone recently?

[Solver]

On the Judaism issue, you're right, that's a claim based on religious scripture, not historical evidence.

I do find this somewhat funny, given how most "facts" known about religion are indeed based on the relevant religious scripture(s) and not historical evidence.

[Locutus]

No, they're not.

[Badtz Maru]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Factual errors/inconsistencies in the Civilopedia

Originally posted by _BuRjaCi_


Wow, I gues being nearly exterminated makes a people kinda militant.

But, my was a refernce to the present.

What about scientists, did they bomb anyone recently?

If Palestine was being administered by Nazi Germany, one could almost make a case that the King David Hotel Bombing was justified. The part that really bugs me is that two people who were admittedly behind this terroristic attack against the British later became Israeli Prime Ministers (and yes, I'm aware of Arafat's background and that he was allowed to be in a position of power bugs me just as much).

As to scientist bombers - there have been a number of scientists who became involved with terrorist groups. And of course, scientists are responsible for inventing bombs and their delivery mechanisms.

[Badtz Maru]

Re: Re: Factual errors/inconsistencies in the Civilopedia

Originally posted by Locutus


No, not clearly. These claims are not mutually exclusive. Seperating Confucianism and Taoism is a nice thing to do in theory, and they do have seperate roots, but in reality they are very much entwined, with each other and with Buddhism. The combination of the three has effectively been the Chinese 'state religion' (if you can call it that) since the Tang dynasty (although Confucianism goes back further, to Han times).

I'm aware of how religions are frequently not practiced exclusively in many areas of the Far East, but that does not mean that a claim that one of them or a combination of more than one was the official state religion of China. The official state religion of China until the end of the Qing dynasty was neither Taoism or Confucianism, but instead "Heaven Worship", a form of monotheism that believes in a single omnipotent incorporeal force referred to as Heaven that is responsible for natural disasters and provides the authority to rule the Chinese people to whatever imperial dynasty was in charge (the "Mandate of Heaven"). This religion has many aspects that conflict with Confucianism (which isn't really a religion so much as a philosophy), and to a lesser degree, Taoism. Emperors who favored religions such as Buddhism or Taoism over Heaven Worship were rare.

Saying that Taoism or Confucianism were state religions of China because the state religion shared some aspects of those religions is like saying that Judaism is one of the state religions of the Vatican City.