Chop chop

[johnmcd]

I often chop tiles that are bound to go to another leader in the long run, I may not get the full benefit of the trees but that's better than no benefit. I also chop any tiles with lots of trees around them as they end up regrowing most of the time. Otherwise, I only chop for particular goals, like a late start on the Great Library or to get an archer in before the barbarian axeman reaches me (I'll often leave a forest pre chopped for just such an event).

[rah]

Yes, I like to keep some forests inside the borders to slow them down, but I like to keep it clear next to the city since I prefer to attack out then let them pillage and bombard by stack.

[Arrian]

Yes, from a security standpoint, I guess the ideal is a line of forest/jungle right at the border, but all tiles directly adjacent to your city should be clear so you can counterattack without facing a 50% defense bonus.

-Arrian

[dregor]

Also an excellent point and, looking back, something I did already unconciously.

[Generaldoktor]

Various strategies evolved during an earlier version of "chop," where it was worth more in the early game and people would "rush" a settler for their second or third city that way. The v.161 patch deliberately ended a lot of that by making "chop" only worth a portion of its value prior to mathematics, which was formerly a rather neglected technology in the early game, except for merchant types.

I'm rushing to mathematics more and using a formula for how many forests to retain, similar to MasterDave and disagreeing with Blake. (BTW, I don't think lumbermills require railroad, they just get an extra hammer if its also there in the square.) I like avoiding the food loss of workshops (don't they give a health hit too?) and the health hit of mines, so I do build lumbermills, but not exclusively; sometimes I do want to prospect for minerals or just "Hammer Down." I have been playing at Noble or below, mostly, so this thing about hiding places for the enemy hasn't been an issue. I think I'd like big armies from Day One regardless, so I can't help thinking you can keep the forests, if you can keep the enemy away from your cities to start with. Besides, my non-garrison support troops might want the same cover!

[Blake]

Workshops can be built at Metal Casting and start at -1 food +1 hammer.
Guilds gives +1 hammer.
Chemistry gives another +1 hammer.
Running the State Property Civic gives +1 food, so the final stats are +3 hammers.

There are a number of reasons I often prefer workshops over lumbermills, the big one is they require far less worker turns and can be pre-built, you can reasonably build them at guilds (equal to a forest) or chemistry (equal to a mine) and they upgrade for "free".

It is possible to get full-powered Workshops before you have Lumbermills, yet alone Railroads. Granted it's also possible to get Railroads before Communism but it's more beakers and you need coal.

Sometimes it also becomes clear that the forest health wont be needed (like you have +20 health in a city which can't grow above 15...), so you may as well just chop the forests and replace them with workshops, you thus get the +30 hammers for a wonder or something (and it costs less worker turns).

Basically smart use of Workshops can get end-game production levels considerably earlier than is possible with lumbermills, especially if you don't have coal (or need to conquer for it).

[Generaldoktor]

Oops, no health hits from workshops or mines, sorry. (Shouldn't mislead the newbies.) I even looked it up; guess I've been deceiving myself, have to build them workshops more, even though I'm a staunch anti-Communist, just like my real-life Fearless Leader. (I seldom use State Property, just don't like the idea.) If there was a health hit that I considered, it must just have been from the loss of the forest. (I Huckabees, I want to save the Marsh and the Woods! ) Or maybe just that senility comes early in my family. (Or were there health hits before the patches? )

Thanks Blake. (Newbies, you can always trust Blake.)

More seriously, I'm told health becomes more of an issue at higher levels, which I am just starting to play (in preparation for the dreaded Multi-Player, no doubt. ) Also, trade in health-friendly stuff ought to go down with the increased aggression at higher levels. (Can't trade with 'em if you're fightin' 'em. We have no bananas today! ) Maybe I should keep those forests, (with lumbermills) around after all!

[Datajack Franit]

I want to be thanked as well

[Generaldoktor]

Okay, thanks DJF. However, even on my current game on Prince, I started over the weekend, I have yet to see the need for free-fire zones around the cities. I am saving the trees. =trees.

[joncnunn]

My own policies with forests are:
Resource present: CHOP (duh!)

On flat plains: High priority to chop for farms (along river or next to fresh water source): Post Math; the rest post-Civil Service.

On flat grassland: Medium prority to chop for cottages, but if the city seems to be short on hammer sources, it will be kept and get a lumbermill.

On hilly terriagn: I usually perfer to keep these forests and lumbermill; but there are food shortage cases where they'd be choped for windmills.

[One_more_turn]

My chop preference:

1. Hills

2. River squares

3. Fresh water squares

4. Grassland

5. Plains


I never chop Tundra squares.

[joncnunn]

I've choped Tundra squares a few times; almost always tiles that weren't going to be worked at all (or at least not for another 150 turns so they'd grow back.)

I've also choped Tundra on Fresh Water post Biology in a city I founded with a severe food shortage.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by joncnunn
On hilly terriagn: I usually perfer to keep these forests and lumbermill; but there are food shortage cases where they'd be choped for windmills.

But for most of the game, mines produce more hammers then forests, they never produce less then forests, and you get the hammer boost from chopping the forest as well, and of course there's the chance of finding resources eventually. Whereas grassland forests are often worth saving, as they're the primary source of hammers some cities have for much of the game and you've got to get those libraries and universities up somehow, I always chop hill forests as soon as possible.

[yimboli]

how often do forests regrow? they only regrow on unimproved tiles, correct?

[Yosho]

Yeah, on unimproved tiles, and it seems to happen more when the empty tiles are surrounded by forest.