Tech Plateauing

[padillah]

Originally posted by Feyd
The only "mod" was the line graph mod (as evidenced by the appropriate way to graph a Civ victory in the shots). Maybe it was added with that one.

I think it was. We are using the line graph that was added with the 1.52 patch. You probably didn't even notice.

edit: Do you have a link to the graph mod? I looked but it's so old I can't find it any more.

Tom P.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by PaganPaulwhisky
I disagree. The two scientists are very insignificant compared to the ouput of a large empire (like I said if yours is small then maybe not). Besides I generally do not really on my capital for GP points in the second half of the game and will often build the GL in another city so that I can generate exclusively scientists. I'm not a big advocate of devoting the capital entirely to science output.

I often get chemistry before SM, but rarely will I go for democracy or rifling before this tech. I usually bypass riflemen in favor of early infantry (English obviously excepted) and prefer to jump to state property and communism before democracy. Other methods probably work just as well, but don't tell me two scientists are gonna make a crucial difference here.

Well, it would be different if it's not in your capital. However, in my capital, 2 scientists are +6 science. If I have a library, a university, Oxford, 2 monistaries, and an acadamy in my capital, that's +220%, which gives me 19 science. Running Beurocracy, giving me another 50%, that gives me 28 extra science. 28 beakers of science a turn is huge; that's more net commerce then you'll usually get from having an entire other well-developed size 10 fishing citiy with a library, a university, and a courthouse. And like I said, the Great Person Points can be worth even more.

Besides, I usually go for Democarcy early for the Statue of Liberty anyway.

[Urban Ranger]

28 beakers aren't insiginficant, but I don't see it as a deciding factor, esp. if you have a science/research city or two up and running already.

[johnmcd]

I'm not sure your sums are right. Does Bureaucracy not affect commerce rather than products of commerce? I'm not sure you'd get a bonus for that.

[Blake]

Ironically this kind of stockpile/research strategy works best when you are behind in tech with bad research.
The idea is to build up a stockpile of money at 0% science, enough to research an entire tech at 100% science. While stockpiling the AI's will research techs and thus discount them (making them cheaper to research). Furthermore once you have your cash stockpile, you can choose until the last moment which tech to ACTUALLY research, this allows you to grab a tech which no-one else has yet, and you can then trade it around. For these reasons and others it's a very effective way to catch up in research.

[Feyd]

Originally posted by Blake
Ironically this kind of stockpile/research strategy works best when you are behind in tech with bad research.
The idea is to build up a stockpile of money at 0% science, enough to research an entire tech at 100% science. While stockpiling the AI's will research techs and thus discount them (making them cheaper to research). Furthermore once you have your cash stockpile, you can choose until the last moment which tech to ACTUALLY research, this allows you to grab a tech which no-one else has yet, and you can then trade it around. For these reasons and others it's a very effective way to catch up in research.

If you look at the "Power" graph you can see that this is an effective strategy if you want to get techs from countries that are ahead of you through less friendly means. What is it Al Capone says? "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word."

[padillah]

Originally posted by Feyd
I've been playing Civ since the 90's and I still can't play above Noble. I know... I suck

Me too.

I just can't seem to get the hang of it.

Either I can't get the resources to play out a strat or I land in the middle of a huge desert... I've edited the XML to decrease deserts and even wrote my own map generator to help alleviate this problem.

There is not that much dessert on the earth. It's just not possible.

Tom P.

[Blaupanzer]

Tom,

There is a lot of desert, look at North Africa/Middle East, but it's presence in the game is just another reason for us to lose. I can never get above Noble, suspect it's 'cause I'm not aggressive enough. I tend to emphasize hammers, but use them to build culture/science improvements, not troops.

At Noble, some of the AIs outdo me in science, while the others are constantly pushing at war. I win the wars finally, but find I'm behind in space race, and in cultural victory options, and not enough friends for UN. Generally it's too late for domination (even if that was possible, see tech position). So back to the drawing board, hoping for a decent city site.

[DrSpike]

I think your strategy delayed your win considerably. Depending on what you were trying to achieve it might be worth just playing it out normally next time.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
28 beakers aren't insiginficant, but I don't see it as a deciding factor, esp. if you have a science/research city or two up and running already.

Well, perhaps not a deciding factor by itself. You also have to add in the effect your monistaries have on your science in all your other cities as well, though. I find that when I get scientific method, the science production of my whole empire tend to drop as much as 20-25% or even more if I've got several religions; between the great library and all the monistaries I lose a lot of science.

You have to get scientific method eventually, of course, but I think it's only worthwhile to get it early if you have a lot of farms so biology will give you a huge boost right away; otherwise, I usually get both the political branch (Republic, democracy) and the millitary branch (chemistry, gunpoweder, ect) first before scientific method.

And of course, you should always get chemistry before scientific method, because you can't get biology before chemistry anyway.

[padillah]

BTW: I'm still looking for the mod that turns the "Research" graph on.


Tom P.