Tech Plateauing

[Feyd]

Hello all,

I just wanted to check on a strategy I have been using in some of my games and while it is not an optimized thing I felt it interesting enough to share. While I generally go for the easy game (I never play above prince) I am always looking to improve my game as well and so I welcome any thoughts!

The thing I'm working with I've dubbed "tech plateauing" as evidinced here...



Basically, what I do is I research everything I can up until I am required to research Scientific Method. I then drop all research to 0% and rake in the cash and build my infrastructure.

The reason? Scientific Method obsoletes the monastery and so since I like spreading all the religions wherever possible I take some time off to do that and build monasteries before I lose access. Originally this started as an exercise of just a few turns so I could put some things in order in just a few cities, but as my civilization up until this point is normally starved for cash, but (since I play the easy game) way ahead in tech I started taking longer and longer with this period in order to reap the benefits all the cash gave me.

At first glance it seems like I'm "playing with my food" since as you can see even after taking almost 100 years off (Marathon speed) the AI is just now catching up to where I was when I STARTED the plateau, but the slingshot effect caused by the influx of cash (and subsequently infrastructure and military) is intersting to note. So much so that if you have even a slight tech lead the few turns it takes for the AI to develop Scientific Method could serve you nicely if you go 100% commerce.

If you hold off on researching Scientific Method until you have no other options you're at a watershed point in the tech tree. You have access to factories, infantry, calvary, and even coal plants (pre-electricity oddly enough). All these factors combined beg for you to have some gold on hand since upgrades and rush buying aren't cheap!

You can see the subsequent effects in these two shots. Note than in my production shot I started my Taj Mahal Golden Age at right about the same time I pleateaud... This will happen frequently enough since this is right about the time the Taj Mahal will be nearing completion in most games...

Production:


Power:


So as you can see if even used as a minor pause plateauing can be a powerful lure. I could have ended mine in the 16 turns of my Golden Age and still had the same jumps. Basically I would have only had to plateau for the length of one beefy tech to receive the same benefits...

Does anybody have any other plateauing points? (Fiber Optics is another where I normally slow research down to get just a few more turns of access to The Kremlin. Although I'm rarely at a point where I'm still building a lot of infrastructure at this point.) Would this work in higher level play?

Thanks in advance for responses/reading!

[uberfish]

I sometimes put off Scientific Method for a while when I have the Great Library to get more out of it. The counterpoint is depending on how your empire is set up, getting biology earlier and +1 food at all your farms can often outweigh keeping the 2 free scientists.

The more I play the less cash rushing I do, and I've only built Kremlin once or twice since 1.61. I have never delayed fibre optics to preserve it though.

[Arrian]

I used to do this in CivIII. I haven't done it a lot in CIV, for a couple of reasons:

I'm a teensie bit obsessed with my tech lead over the AI.
I figure it only makes sense once you've built the Kremlin, and by then I'm typically in total command anyway.

edit: speaking of which... you appear to have been in total command before your plateau anyway. You were already running away with the game.

One reason I wouldn't do this around the time of Sci Method is I want to get to Physics, Biology, Assembly Line and Plastics ASAP. The faster I get those factories up, the Three Gorges built (or individual power plants), and +1 food from my farms, the faster I can create a proper industrial economy with which to blow away the AI. Physics is just in there to nab the free GS.

-Arrian

[Feyd]

Actually, if you plateau you get coal plants and factories with your last two techs before you shut it down. Normally I would wait for Three Gorges, but in this game I was running at about +10 health in all of my cities so I figured I could sacrifice the 2 points with the plants.

Like I said I play Warlord or Prince... Prince would have seen a time limit on my play I'm sure... as it stands I could have spent another 100 years without resuming tech, but maybe that would have been a bit much

[Quillan]

Sorry about possibly hijacking the thread here, but I need to ask a question. How is it that your game can do things mine won't? The game has never given me the option of naming my screenshots, but I've ignored that. However, on the graphs, RESEARCH is not an option for me. I can show graphs of GNP, Power, Score, Crop Yield, Mfg Goods and maybe Culture, but that's it. How do you get Research to show on the graphs?

[Feyd]

Originally posted by Quillan
Sorry about possibly hijacking the thread here, but I need to ask a question. How is it that your game can do things mine won't? The game has never given me the option of naming my screenshots, but I've ignored that. However, on the graphs, RESEARCH is not an option for me. I can show graphs of GNP, Power, Score, Crop Yield, Mfg Goods and maybe Culture, but that's it. How do you get Research to show on the graphs?

It's a little trick I learned through trial and error...
*Hit "Shift-Print Screen" and it will bring up the "Name Screenshot" prompt
*Name the shot and position the box where you prefer
*THEN hit "Print Screen"

If you hit OK it will name the file what you put in the box.

I saw that Vel did this on his shots and so I did some figuring and voila!

As for Research being an option do you have the most current patch? I don't remember it before then either.

Cheers...

[sparkyal]

I have the 1.61 patch and I don't get the research option either. Sorry, I know this is off topic as well.

So, to be on topic. I also hold off on SM for research chioce or two as well since my monestaries would loose their value. I've found that at that point I'm like 4 or more tech's behind and I need all the help I can get.

sparky

[SebP]

Haven't been rushing much in CIV, but looks interesting. Just: Since in the grand application of the plateau it's not about getting monasteries for faster religion spread in the endgame anymore, but about cash for infrastructure, why do the long plateau before scientific method->communism->Kreml, rather than after you get the Kreml? The producton jump would come later but the plateau would be shorter. Well i guess without playing it out this can't really be decided, it will also depend on playing style, and, if you don't usually research communism at all, it's just a waste

[Urban Ranger]

I don't do that. I will delay discovering the Scientific Method for a while, but usually by than I have pretty much build all the monestaries I want. If I really want to spread my religions to other cities, e.g. those gained by conquest, I switch to Organized Religion for a few turns.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

Hmmm, I just don't see much value in delaying Scientific method. By this point in the game the two scientists should make very little difference (If you have a small empire then it might be worthwhile). I also build relatively few monastaries so I really don't mind losing them. SM unlocks some pretty powerful techs which I like to get to ASAP.

The only time I really plateau is when I'm pretty confident that I can get a domination win after being the first to a crucial military tech. Then I will sometimes shut my research down completely to get a faster win, however it is not really necessary.

[johnmcd]

I think you're probably only dealying a win with this tactic. You look like you have control and can only be slowing down access to the techs that will make it a sure thing, whether that is your spaceship, military or cultural advances. If the AI is a hundred years behind you techwise then you should be able to start hitting them with infantry and maybe tanks before they can get riflemen in, alternativley you could be getting those last cultural wonders in before freewheeling across the line.

Remeber, you might be putting off obsoleting your monastries but you aren't even using them when you turn off science so what does it matter? They are already lost to you.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by PaganPaulwhisky
Hmmm, I just don't see much value in delaying Scientific method. By this point in the game the two scientists should make very little difference (If you have a small empire then it might be worthwhile). I also build relatively few monastaries so I really don't mind losing them. SM unlocks some pretty powerful techs which I like to get to ASAP.

The only time I really plateau is when I'm pretty confident that I can get a domination win after being the first to a crucial military tech. Then I will sometimes shut my research down completely to get a faster win, however it is not really necessary.

Well, the two free scientists, and perhaps more importantly, the great people points they make, are significant, especally in your capitial with all the science buildings and acadamy and Beurocracy bonus.

I don't stop science before I get to scientific method, but I always get stuff like Democracy, Chemistry, Rifiling, and other key techs like that, first.

[PaganPaulwhisky]

I disagree. The two scientists are very insignificant compared to the ouput of a large empire (like I said if yours is small then maybe not). Besides I generally do not really on my capital for GP points in the second half of the game and will often build the GL in another city so that I can generate exclusively scientists. I'm not a big advocate of devoting the capital entirely to science output.

I often get chemistry before SM, but rarely will I go for democracy or rifling before this tech. I usually bypass riflemen in favor of early infantry (English obviously excepted) and prefer to jump to state property and communism before democracy. Other methods probably work just as well, but don't tell me two scientists are gonna make a crucial difference here.

[padillah]

I think the "Research" graph is a mod of some sort. Do you remember adding any mods that might do something like this?

This is a usefull bit of information to have. I'd like to be able to see this in my games.

I didn't see any XML that stuck out as the one to edit (but, on a side note, I DID see a ThroneRoomInfos.xml. Hmmm.)

Review your mods and see if you can figure out where it came from, please.

Thanks,
Tom P.

[Feyd]

The only "mod" was the line graph mod (as evidenced by the appropriate way to graph a Civ victory in the shots). Maybe it was added with that one.